Hello Allison,
I will go right to the bottom and expose your thought process ----
c. "Because of the previous discussions on this listerv relating to it, the BCafe is not a "safe space" for the purpose of a community discussion". Now, that's more like it. You have now confirmed the "might not" to a "is not". Like I was saying,
What makes BCafe not a "safe space" for the purpose of a community discussion??
The rest of this is how from a mathematical/statistical perspective how I understood what you were really saying before you actually said it.
I believe that Mr. Peloquin said ""if" we all feel we are in a safe place" so let's set some ground rules. If you didn't get it, He was not describing the environment but addressing people's comfort level and suggesting setting some Ground Rules to help make this more comfortable. He didn't say it was not a safe place like you did in your last statement at the very bottom.
So what Mr. Peloquin did was indirectly spoke to his understanding that some folks (definitely not anyone Black) may not feel safe. Your statement "there are many people who might not see that as a 'safe space'." The words "There are" says that you have some information that may support this thought process -- indirectly insinuating that many will not see that as a "Safe Place". Because of the use of "There are many people", it alludes to high probability of more than one (even though you use the negating word "might") "might not see this as a "Safe Place" and it dilutes the "May Not perspective" to allude to a "Will Not" perspective. Had you use the words "few people who might not" - then it would be consistant with "might not".
There is a big difference here and that's definitely not the way Mr. Peloquin used it. His intent was to further create comfort and lighten the issue of "safe place" and yours was an affirmation that it "might" be "unsafe" and to further heighten that thought by moving the discussion. So, the way it was used was really different. I hope you get that.
***So once again, in a soft tone -- my response to you is ---
"2. I understand that you may have your own reason for this location not being a "safe place", but please find me some evidence that it has a history of being "not safe"."
"3. Please allow those people who feel it is not a "safe place" to voice that and show the same history of it being "unsafe"."
Allison, you further statements in this email explaining is a good example of when explaining gets folks deeper in the quicksand.
Your train of thought is ,
a. "assured of the good will of all -- What else would our "will" be?? the only other "will" of all could "bad" will. Knowing that you wouldn't be referring to yourself as coming with bad will, this is suggesting that others may be attending with bad will.
b. It must be in the spirit of openness and with a sincere desire to come together" -- What else would you be expecting from anyone else??, because I am sure that you are coming with openess and desire to come together.
Skip a few thoughts and get to the meat below.
c. Because of the previous discussions on this listerv relating to it, the BCafe is not a "safe space" for the purpose of a community discussion. Now, that's more like it. You have now confirmed the "might not" to a "is not". Like I was saying, What makes BCafe not a "safe space" for the purpose of a community discussion??
d. Though I believe my intent was actually quite clear from my original email and the use of quotations. While I saw your quotationed --"Safe Place", I also can read with comprehension so as not to be throw off by simple detractors. That's how we are thought to handle word problems and take exams!! I am not asleep, my dear.
e. I would say the same thing about Menomale. Why would you say the same about Manomale. No one I know has any issues with Manomale - I tasted the Pizza and it was good and the renovations is really cool and great use of space. You see, this is just rhethoric for you to justify a misnomer that part of this issue is about BCafe vs. Manomale. Please don't get it twisted --- The use of Manomale was only for identification purposes of the Racial and Prejudicial INJUSTICE -- it is really BCafe identfying the Padous and Co. for their Racist and Prejudice attack on the Cafe.
You see, if you said that you wouldn't use Manomale either just to be fair, I could understand but not because "many people might not feel it is a "safe place".
f. Since he (Mr. Peloquin) can used this term to describe the kind of environment a discussion should take place, I should be able to as well. Sure you can, but please don't change the direction of the Sails and expect us to believe that we are still heading to "India" and actually tell us that we are in India when we see land but you know that we are in the "new world" -- we can read.
You see, it is all in the Gamble in shaking the tree -- you either get some ripe fruit to fall or the limb might break and cause you to fall on your face. I gamble on people's desire to be RIGHT - even when the preliminary results come back negative!!
Mrs. KPW -- I hope you like my new Waltz Technique. Your "encouragement" taught me how to "dance" without stepping on too many toes. Did I step on any?? Smile.
Dancing Dancing to the Beat of my own ignorance that we could make a difference in this world. God please open the minds of "this community" to understand that we are not fools and that it is time to hear what we have been trying to say for so many years. I pray - Just hear me out. Don't say too much more but just listen to the stories from years of experience and maybe they will get it. At the speed of OUR LIFE'S EXPERIENCES, learn you could!!
Softly dancing,
Rob Ramson.
I was using the phrase "safe space" in the way Jerome used it:
"If we meet together we need to do so with a clear understanding of the ground rules. We must all feel we are in a SAFE SPACE, assured of the good will of all. It must be in the spirit of openness and with a sincere desire to come together. We must leave our collective egos at the door. There must be no recriminations, no charges of dishonesty, and no ad hominem attacks on anyone." [my emphasis added]
Since he can used this term to describe the kind of environment a discussion should take place, I should be able to as well. Because of the previous discussions on this listerv relating to it, the BCafe is not a "safe space" for the purpose of a community discussion. Though I believe my intent was actually quite clear from my original email and the use of quotations.
I would say the same thing about Menomale. How about the cupcake place on 12th NE? I've never heard any complaints.
Allison
Allison
--- In ward5@yahoogroups.com, KPW <WKPW3@...> wrote:
>
> I've moderated her before. Just because she doesn't talk a certain way and convey her messages in an agreeable way doesn't give another person license to be disrespectful too. I don't know her journey and don't her period so I try not to assume too much about her.
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> She should not have used the word "safe" but I thought it was intended in another way.
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> I suggest you let the moderator take on the folks that are not so nice. Unless you do it in a more gentle way, you will be looked at as the bad guy. Sometimes people's experiences determine how they say or interpret things.
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> Move on with your event and disregard her if she is not included in your activity. Talk to her offline. Don't ruin what you are trying to do by being not so kind to others. Leadership is expected to lead well.
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> I'm not going to go on and on about this. When you get on people so harshly, you don't leave room for anyone else to correct them and you become the "bad guy".
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> Anyway, I hope today we can focus on some positive solutions without inflammatory language.
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> Moderator
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> -----Original Message-----> From: Rob <indianrob@...>
> To: ward5 <ward5@yahoogroups.com>; Ward 5 Google Groups <wardfive@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 12:19 pm
> Subject: Re: [ward5] Re: A Constructive Proposal
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> Mrs. KPW,
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> "The day you open your brain" -- Really -- Wow!!! How many times do we have to explain how insulting it is to ask those questions that she did. And then to have her respond with being "attacked" again - like she did nothing and say that the Cafe is "unsafe" -- really. Am I missing something??
>
> She has no point. Why would she feel "unsafe" there and not anywhere else. The only variable that is not constant in attending a meeting anywhere and the location being "unsafe" is the fact that BCafe is in my Building. What would stop someone from attacking her at any location if a person wanted to do so. I am truly missing something. Just so you, she and everyone else knows, She is Welcome to participate. If she feels that "unsafe", she should not attend. Once again, this is not my meeting. Mr. Peloquin continues to call for this and I had nothing to do with it. However, I support it but will not allow anyone to LABEL THAT LOCATION "UNSAFE". I hope you get that.
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> So you know, until people open their brain and stop denying Racism, there can be no movement forward. It is amazing that we have now localized Racism to Ward 5 but nothing that we have discussed in the 1.5 years can fit that description -- or of course, everyone was either in "skimming" mode and "don't read the listserv often" excuse. Riiiiight!!
>
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> Since you were somewhat unclear of the traffic and parking situation in you email yesterday as it relates to the getting a liquor license without a Protest, I just wanted to share with you and others about the restaurant that will be opening soon on 12th Street between Monroe and Newton -- a much more BUSY street for parking than both the Cafe and Manomale. It also has no parking either and is 2 Blocks closer to the Padous than the Cafe is. I noticed that there was no protest on their liquor license either, question of ownership, parking issues, noise issues or "potential" for noise, parking issues like the Cafe Received so abundantly.
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> Just so you know, there about 16 business, and a CVS and Murrays on the Corner -- just to give you an idea of amount of businesses and no parking available. Just so you and the rest could get a more clear sight of the Racism that the Cafe incurred for three + years.
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> I have met the owner and seen the place from the outside. He had invited me to the test run of the food and equiptment but I got there late. It is called Little Ricky's and it is really nicely done and is expected to open with a full Bar this Month of October. The owner seems to be a really nice guy and while it is great to have him put his business here on 12th Street, it further shows how Racist and Prejudiced the Protest was against the Cafe.
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> Just Saying and maybe I will one day live long enough to not be faced with Racism like you.
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> Rob Ramson
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>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:27 AM, KPW <WKPW3@...> wrote:
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> That was uncalled for Rob. Be decent in your comments and play nicely or I have to cut you back some and not allow you the leeway you have been privileged to have. Some of your statements appear to be a little abusive on the abusive side. As a community leader, we expect you to lead by example in the way you to talk to people and bring them along to your point of view.
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> She did have a point as do you. Perhaps the purpose of the event needs to be clearly stated or maybe there needs to two events. I'm not involved in this event. I'm just moderating the discussion to help maintain the peace on the listserv.
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> The day you open your brain and realize that what you said
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> KPW
> Moderator
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> -----Original Message-----> From: Rob <indianrob@...>
> To: ward5 <ward5@yahoogroups.com>; Ward 5 Google Groups <wardfive@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 11:15 am
> Subject: Re: [ward5] Re: A Constructive Proposal
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> Good Morning Allison,
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> 1. The day you open your brain and realize that what you said was very attacking to Hazel and to the Farmers Market, then you will have the right to mention being "attacked" here again. We were only responding in kind to you as a the initiator.
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> 2. I understand that you may have your own reason for this location not being a "safe place", but please find me some evidence that it has a history of being "not safe".
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> 3. Please allow those people who feel it is not a "safe place" to voice that and show the same history of it being "unsafe".
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> 4. This conversation is not about "BCafe" or a Liquor License so please get that. It is about the process in how Racism is affecting this community and the Oppressive behavior and tolerance of some Whites by other Whites -- all with the hope of having the end result of having a better community.
>
> 5. This would be a great place to start so that folks like you could see the so called "unsafe" place that has been the perfect storm to fully expose folks like the Padous and all the comments that have fallen out of the Tree regarding Racism. Any White Person who attends this meeting with an open mind will leave with a much better understanding and appreciation of how Blacks feel about the things that are said and done. Above all, you will be look at as wanting to be part of a solution even if you have been part of the Problem.
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> 6. We can have this meeting in your living room and folks like Tiffany Mouzan who is new to this community and Commissioner Ransom would say the same thing that they said - of course without response. I wonder if you all even know if Tiffany Mouzan is White or Black?? Can you tell by her name?? Hmmmm!!
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> I know that I may seem like an easy target to attack because I am not "African American" - However, it wasn't until yesterday that God and/or my Mother-in-law opened my brain and made me realize how African American (not just Black) I really am. As you see, I have put lots of thought into being who I am and that's only about 20% of what I have brought to the table thus far. Because of my experiences, God has trained me to have transcended Race and have been gifted to talk and walk the talk into a life that none of you can SUBDIVIDE me from the so many arms that are locked and clinched around me.
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> Willie Lynch Technology has no operation system that can even begin to interface in my domain. Trust and believe that when this meeting is over, Whites don't own the corner on communication. Understand that I didn't call this meeting but you, your trumped up fears or those of anyone else will not be the determining factor of where it is hosted. So you know, I could care less - but it would be good to have some input from some of the "non-involved" customers to be able to get a "NEUTRAL" FEEL!!
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> Rob Ramson
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Allison Stewart <allisonstewart@...> wrote:
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> At the risk of being attacked here (again), and regardless of my or your position on the BCafe, there are many people who might not see that as a 'safe space'. For maximum attendance, I suggest you find a neutral location like a school or community space.
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> Allison
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> --
> R. Ramson
> 3744 12th Street, N.E.,
> Washington D.C., 20017
> 202-438-5988
>
> "We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
> (Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)
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> --
> R. Ramson
> 3744 12th Street, N.E.,
> Washington D.C., 20017
> 202-438-5988
>
> "We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
> (Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)
>
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--
R. Ramson
3744 12th Street, N.E.,
Washington D.C., 20017
202-438-5988
"We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
(Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)
--
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