Leslie,Obviously adequate space wasn't considered when choosing this site (unless Turkey Thicket was always part of the Plan) - but maybe that doesn't take priority over it being close to a metro or the other uses of Turkey Thicket by community -- which I am sure someone at DCPS had to know that that site was not big enough for a Middle School -- without infringing upon Turkey Thicket current facilities/Site.Furthermore, there is a difference on being "forced upon" and what may have occurred. For sure, it wasn't discouraged. So, let me be clear -- since you want to take that tone -- I ain't no fresh puppy on this or living in this ward nor its knowing about its' goings on -- just so you know. In addition, no one is duscussing what is needed "in" a middle school, just what is needed in the existing site around that school that folks enjoy and are part of an healthy, active and ESPECIALLY "green" lifestyle.Now as to the architects -- they wouldn't be putting together a CO-SHARING site if they were not asked to -- and if you want to write some more, please write and tell me how you ask an architech to draw some plans for your property and he draws one that includes your neighbor's and attaches itself to his/her house because it is owned by the same landlord and then you and that same architect has the audacity to show not one but more options to that neighbor and say -- this is it - it is better for both of us but understand that I am now going to limit your usage of your property during certain times of the day. And by the way, if the principle decides to include swimming in the curricullum (just because Rae's experience is not swimming for middle schoolers), we are going to take away some of the pool usage.Then when your and the rest of the community tells you Naaaaa, don't think so -- you the architect show up two weeks later with a better salesperson to do the presentation with very similar "" CONCEPT PLANS"" with you (Rae) helping sell it (being angry at the community for voicing their opinion -- that should be included and not made wrong for sharing their thoughts) because it is your "hard work", you know what is ******* best for us and you want it brought to fruition so you can run around with this on your Resume for Council -- when the fact that if DCPS didn't want it there -- IT WOULDN'T BE GOING THERE!!!!! Then you (Rae) feel that you are so right that you call for a private meeting because WHY???Next -- The problem is that folks are confusing building a middle school there and our concern of imposing it all over the Rec. Center and the other uses/users that utilize it. So you know, I have a really good grasp of keeping points separate as well as being quite clear in getting my point across.Let me be further clear - I have no problem with the site other than it was not thought through properly -- In my OPINION -- and last I checked, I at least have that right. Furthermore, if you don't take one suggestion -- my feelings don't get hurt and I will still speak to you the next time that I see you -- unlike me identifying the BS for 901 Monroe and the other things that folks hold against me. And yes -- do I believe that all the cards are not on the table -- absolutely.So that I am even more CRYSTAL clear --- even though my child is very artistic, unless something unforseen occurs, she won't be going to that "arts" school -- so, in reality, I can zip my mouth and not say anything. And since any improvement to that site makes for a better site and higher property value for me, you and the rest of W5COE and the SIT team can sign the check and get it over with and I won't lose any more sleep than I already do or I would be up 24hrs.Oh since it has come before the Community and while we appreciate yours, Rae, and everyone's volunteer work (and I really do), please understand that they (DCPS/DGS and the architects) presented, there are definitely lots of concerns which seem to be tossed away to present the same thing again two weeks later -- that is not kool.As to your statement before you promised "more" - those same architects were asked specifically to separate the sites uses and present but somehow that 2 hours of communication got lost in translation because we were speaking the language of "Community" -- something that they don't seem to understand.The Problem is that the Govt. is accustomed to coming in and using the "votes" for and saying that there were a lot of people who wanted ________, or this is what the community asked for and do what they wanted to in the first place. However, for various reasons, the community (playground users - mostly Whites who won't be sending their kids to this school, our Seniors needs, our School users, and those like me who could just be like all of our non-participating community members, who just want to lend my own experiences and my little vision that flickers obviously not as bright as seemingly everyone else) is actually indirectly together on the same side -- so it has made it difficult for DCPS to ride over us this time like IT (I just realized that DCPS is a "machine" with their program) usually does.Now, my participation is solely to partake in and help identify all options, possible uses and pitfalls that I see - including not having the school there so we can have a State-of-the Art Rec. Center to fullfill our future needs as well -- something the Mayor's plan should be embracing - to fullfill his healthy/green lifestyle -- unless his plan is solely just for development, speed cams and bike lanes and not for truly encouraging health 4 months out of the year and activities for our youth to keep them not idle and our seniors who deserve better for all they have suffered through.And let me be finally clear -- I know what has transpired in the community about this site -- never was it discussed a need for CO-USE/LOCATION -- and that is the only problem here -- DCPS should have known that THIS school site was too small to make the cut to be one of the middle schools when you and the rest had "your choice" and very likely knew this was going to be a CO location and Rae may have known as well. As with most plans like this -- you end up getting the "you don't throw the baby out with the bath water" statement as a justifier!!! THEY KNEW as this is not DCPS's first dance with a Co-Location. And if they say that they didn't, then that's embarassing. Just to be clear, I am assuming that you were like the rest of us -- in the "didn't know" their plans catagory.
And nt saying it can't or wouldn't work -- it is just not presented properly and the details are not worked out as well as it is limiting at to the next 100 years of growth of a Rec. Center and a school in its ability to provide for all the New and Old residents without losing a Rec. Center or a School -- money that could have been used somewhere else to last longer.
Anyways -- today I took the initiative to start the conversation with the residents on Shepherd St (1000 Blk) to see if they would consider selling their houses to create some added space for the School and we may have an opportunity there -- the one owner who I spoke to wasn't agaist moving!! Will work on the other two. Clearly the entire development team, W5COE and the SIT Team did a lot to get the school here and sometimes, some added thoughts and efforts makes all that work better. -- It is called Team Work -- something that communication from some might make easier.It takes a village of ideas to build a school adjacent to a well used Community Center.Rob Ramson
On Mar 16, 2013 5:53 PM, "Leslie Jones" <lesliedwjones@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow! There's a lot of back and forth going on over this and I've got to say I'm a little baffled. These conversations started at least three years ago and weren't done in secret. The Brookland site was proposed by Ward Five residents (including myself). It wasnt forced on us by DCPS. I know it was suggested that we were given this option without knowledge of what is needed in a good middle school or what else is available. As someone who began teaching in the District in '95, has lived in the neighborhood off and on since '96 and permanently since '01 and has been teaching in a middle school since '03, I don't feel as of I've been duped by DCPS in anyway- and let me be clear- I've got a healthy dose of mistrust as well.
>
> Also, let me say that the architects didn't decide to do the co-location. They were asked to put together some ideas, which they did. It's our job to tell them (architects, DGS and DCPS) what we want.
>
> (I have a second post coming 'cause I have a lot to say)
>
> Leslie Jones
>
> On Saturday, March 16, 2013, wrote:
>>
>> Today's Topic Summary
>>
>> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/wardfive/topics
>>
>> [ward5] Ward5 discusses proposed middle school at Turkey Thicket in Brookland: Standalone vs. Co-location with Recreation Center [5 Updates]
>> Adult Garden Education Classes near the Fort Totten Metro [1 Update]
>> DC & Fairfax Scholarships and Internships (deadlines April 8 and April 14) [1 Update]
>> The Ward 5 Report: Office of Councilmember Kenyan R. McDuffie [1 Update]
>> Puzzled? [1 Update]
>> [ward5] Ward5 discusses proposed middle school at Turkey Thicket in Brookland: Standalone vs. Co-location with Recreation Center
>> Rob <indianrob@gmail.com> Mar 15 10:28AM -0400
>>
>> Few more details about last night,
>> Last night was a second community meeting regarding the Ward 5 Arts Middle
>> School that is being planned with the intent of demolishing the current
>> Brookland Elementary (Michigan/12th) and somehow building a New Middle
>> School to combine that Site and building upon Turkey Thicket's Site.
>> Let's list some points that were covered,
>> 1. From the attempts being made, the architect and DCPS has basically
>> concluded that the Existing Brookland Elementary site is Way too Small to
>> put a Middle School. So, if we all remember Middle School, that age group
>> demands a lot of outdoor space to recreate.
>> 2. Backing up a bit -- the previous W5COE administration demanded a few
>> Middle Schools in Ward 5. Amazing that a School System had an entire Ward
>> without a Middle School -- the Largest populated Ward. Amazing -- isn't it.
>> Makes you wonder about the angles that were put into place.
>> 3. W5COE of past made the decision with DCPS that this existing Brookland
>> Elementary School site was a "perfect" location for a Middle School because
>> of proximity to Rec. Center, to Metro, and that it is Centrally Located in
>> Ward 5. So far, So good. But at the same time, a STEM Middle School is
>> placed at McKinley -- which has all the academic and recreational bells and
>> Whistles for Science, Technology, Engineering, Math capable students -- and
>> rightfully so because it feeds right into to McKinley Tech -- both of these
>> schools at this location designed for top performing kids.
>> 4. Back to the Proposed Brookland Middle -- An "ARTS" school designed for
>> kids -- Feeder more than likely Bunker Hill. Somehow this school is
>> overwhelmingly attaching itself to Turkey Thicket Rec Center and its
>> grounds.
>> 5. At no point over the 3 years of prior negotiations/discussions did the
>> Previous W5COE or DCPS inform the community that building a Middle School
>> at the current Brookland Elementary Site would incorporate CO - Sharing the
>> Turkey Thicket Facility and Grounds. Not sure if W5COE knew of this
>> possibility or not or they were just grabbing a location because they were
>> happy to get a Stand Alone Middle School for our Kids -- a Basic Right that
>> was taken away by closing Backus and Taft -- the latter which was given
>> away to a Charter Middle School -- What Gives?
>> 6. Now that the concepts/plans are being designed -- Turkey Thicket Rec.
>> Center has now become over taken with facilitating a Middle School on it's
>> site thus reducing its Green Space and causing various scheduling conflicts
>> from multi use of space.
>> 7. A selling point is that this approach would enhance the property,
>> create some extra spacial use after school hours and during summer of parts
>> of the New School. Not a bad perspective if that is *the only location* *that
>> we as a community* have to work with for our KIDS Middle School. I believe
>> that there are options but it is not being explored properly or with the
>> intent to make it happen.
>> 8. Seems like some of our Community think that we stand to "lose" if we
>> don't accept this Middle School Turkey Thicket Space. Very Similar to if we
>> don't give into the 901 Monroe development team disregarding the
>> Community/SAP and exceeding agreed upon parameters, we would end up with
>> nothing.
>> 8. The Tactic that has usually worked in the past -- divide and conquer
>> and get enough people saying yes to the "Plan" that they can just say --
>> well we know that we can't satisfy everyone but enough support was reached,
>> so we went ahead with it. Of course, in this scenario, this is not
>> happening -- whether it is the seniors, the playground enthusiasts, the
>> rec. staff bad experiences with similar situations elsewhere, those
>> interested in the School, our Green Team, etc. --- too many different
>> entities have issues with the Plans to CO-Use the space.
>> 9. Here we are.
>> a. So, I believe the RFP to identify a developer went out last July -- I
>> wonder who won the "bid" or was this arranged. I believe that they have
>> already everything in place -- looks like a project manager and team is
>> present.
>> b. A SIT team was chosen to help DCPS identify/create a curriculum to
>> provide as well as have input on "design".
>> c. Seems like even though they had their input -- two weeks ago, they were
>> blindsided with "let's see if we can show something to the community that
>> we have been told to create" and see if we can override the SIT team's
>> input.
>> d. Two weeks later (last night) -- at the second presentation, not much
>> changed after the community communicated that CO-USE of the facility was
>> not what was wanted. 3 of the four Concepts were still heavily focused on a
>> CO-USED facility -- with a sales point that the Rec. Center would benefit
>> from extra space when school was not using some of its' building that could
>> be shared with the Rec. Center.
>> e A lady identified that there are only 3 showers in Womem Locker Room --
>> can't imagine enough space for Girls to utilize Pool. Sure it would be same
>> for boys.
>> ****** I must share that Rae Zapata felt strongly that swimming is not
>> going to be part of the Middle School Curriculum because the kids will be
>> too busy with other things to include this as part of their activity
>> ******* In my opinion and seemingly from many others -- we strongly
>> disagree with this. Seems to me that when you make statements like this,
>> there are some things left to be questioned ******** From what I
>> understand, if a principal wants swimming to be part of a curriculum, then
>> that pool gets utilized -- that's why the focus on attaching the buildings.
>> f. 250 Plus Signatures were collected (and more to come) by Brookland
>> Bridge Blog manager (Shani) that identified the 4 issues that the community
>> have -- previously posted on Brookland and Ward 5 Yahoo List Serv.
>> *****Wish this petition was picked up and circulated by our Council Office
>> to all other List Servs. in the Ward as this Middle School is not just a
>> Brookland Issue ******
>> **** A Must Know - Ward 5 Council Member Kenyan McDuffie was very
>> passionate as he adamantly demanded that DCPS, DGS, Etc. all listen to the
>> fact that majority of the community is demanding a NON - SHARED site and to
>> create a design that reflected that. Also, he demanded that these offices
>> communicate better with the community -- I must say -- Great JOB. He spoke
>> with adamant concern for the lack of respect that the community is being
>> given and the representing departments continued failure to implement the
>> concerns of the community. Shows Much Growth!!
>> ***** My Passionate Frustration with their lack of respect brought a loud
>> exclamation -- WHY DOES A CM have to tell heads of Depts. to "COMMUNICATE"
>> with the community!! At what point do we stop babysitting GROWN FOLKS in a
>> manner that we have to DEMAND the most BASIC of their JOB DESCRIPTION!!
>> What sucks is that this is a habitual conversation with no repercussions to
>> people who continue to abuse the community **** I will never understand why
>> "communication" is such an issue on every project.
>> g. Seniors complain that this would inhibit their use of Turkey Thicket
>> h. Current and Future users of playground concerned about the money being
>> lost that would be used for the playground that is scheduled to be
>> installed and that it wouldn't be accessible.
>> i. Three of the Concepts added buildings to the current Turkey Thicket
>> Building that would allow for Co-Use of Space. Very few of those who
>> attended are for this and most everyone wants totally separate facilities.
>> j. There was one "concept" plan that did looked like a "State of the Art"
>> Middle School *should look* with a Field (Soccer/Football/Track -- which is
>> a plus). Not much was said about it at all but from a sales perspective, it
>> seems like that is what the carrot is meant to do. It places the new Middle
>> School at the Southern End of Turkey Thicket (close to the Exxon) with much
>> of the School along Michigan and Otis and part of 10th (a horseshoe shape)
>> and separated from Turkey Thicket by allowing the now disjointed Quincy to
>> connect from 10th to Michigan to allow for buses, drop-off.
>> *** doesn't make sense to me as;
>> 1. It looses too much space to a Street that buses will have tough time
>> making turns onto and maneuvering around each other.
>> 2. It creates a Wall as you drive North coming over the Michigan Ave Bridge
>> between the Condo Building on right and that Concept design for a New
>> Middle School
>> 3. *** from a common sense approach -- it would make sense to place a
>> building along the 10th Street side and have a circular drive way coming
>> off of Michigan Ave and running behind parking for the school facing
>> Michigan ave -- with the exit from the school onto Otis adjacent to the
>> Exxon.
>> Now that is if that was just another identification that even the
>> Architects are not paying attention to utility of space. This site design
>> does swaps/re-allocate land use from Park and Recs to DCPS and allow for a
>> Real Track and Field atmosphere
>> a. draw back -- the field is artificial surface which looses our green
>> space -- what everyone is fighting for.
>> b. draw back -- we loose our baseball field.
>> c. draw back -- we loose event space that is sometimes held on the Baseball
>> field area
>> I keep suggesting that they utilize Luke C. Moore as it will allow for
>> more attend
>> ******An option that they haven't spoken about* -- buying the three houses
>> on the southern part of 1000 Blk. of Shepherd Street N.E. behind the
>> current Brookland Elementary School and incorporating that into the Design
>> for the school to provide additional space for underground parking, above
>> that -- Track and field (soccer and football) and allowing more space for
>> their gym and an entire street for buses and to drop off****** (I am sure
>> for the right money, they would sell)
>>
>> Complaint from resident that no link to plans/concepts on internet and not
>> getting responses. DCPS seem to think that placing the various "concept"
>> architectual plans on a website for the community to be able to view is too
>> much to expect in this age of technology
>> RFP that went out last July for New Brookland Middle --
>> http://dc.gov/DC/DGS/Opportunities/RFP+for+Design+of+New+Brookland+Middle+School
>>
>>
>> --
>> R. Ramson
>> 3744 12th Street, N.E.,
>> Washington D.C., 20017
>> 202-438-5988
>>
>> "We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
>> (Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob <indianrob@gmail.com> Mar 15 04:37PM -0400
>>
>> Not doubting all that. Let's not be confused -- I am not taking anything
>> away from those (including Rae - which this was to be a legacy stepping
>> stone / some politics to being a CM) who worked towards getting back what
>> was RIGHTFULLY ours to begin with that some CM's allowed taken in the first
>> place -- maybe including Kwame - especially when the school focus was Ward
>> 3. In addition, had there not been a DCPS need to set forth this
>> segregation movement along with the Charter School push, we would not be
>> geting any schools. Our kids in this side has not historically been a
>> priority and last I checked, no marketing effort has ever been done to keep
>> our DCPS schools "enrolled".
>>
>> Again my questions of Rae not being surprised or shell shocked and apalled
>> like the rest of us is a valid "wonder" like she already knew - telling
>> statement to me. If that's the case, that's Sad. I also wonder why as a
>> lawyer, she is willing to accept "let's build it as a CO-Share with the rec
>> center and iron out the details of use afterwards. That usage agreement
>> should be done first (trust me - I have made that stupid mistake many times
>> of trusting folks) so that our seniors, our concerned playgrounders (who
>> mostly could care less about a school if it affects them) don't get
>> clobbered!!
>>
>> Like I said - we need a state of the art Rec. Center and this location
>> would be best since so much development is coming close to here. There are
>> many other sites for schools but that is my 1 of 75,000 persons opinion.
>>
>> Rob Ramson
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob <indianrob@gmail.com> Mar 15 05:02PM -0400
>>
>> While we are at statements that makes no sense -- why do we need a
>> community garden? Build simething else. We should elimimate that and make
>> the roof an area that students can learn how to grow vegeables in a green
>> house environment and maybr incorporate into their diet.
>>
>> And let's not forget some solar panels.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob <indianrob@gmail.com> Mar 15 05:38PM -0400
>>
>> Hey Eric,
>>
>> First of all, they are not going to tell us the truth about the other
>> schools and why -- just something to justify what they want to do. It is
>> written all over their voice and actions -- and the fact that they feel
>> that they don't need to. Let's be real -- when is the last time you felt
>> that they were dealing from one deck of cards with us? It is always
>> some crap or politics or charter school or development involved. However,
>> we will see over the years to come.
>>
>> While I agree with your statement here --- "While middle schoolers don't
>> generally have "after-care," one could do some really interesting things
>> with after school activities in combination with the rec center" --
>> whole-heartedly, I must say that there has to be a way to do this without
>> infringing upon the Rec. Center or the use of the Rec. center and the new
>> playground.
>>
>> At the same time, think about this -- if an adjacent school is available
>> for use after school hours, I would be surprised if they would be
>> suggesting usage of the Gym and any other facility in that school if they
>> weren't bartering for use of Turkey Thicket's facilities. Funny how when
>> someone needs something, they are ready to share but if they didn't need,
>> DCPS would be calling all kinds of liability, asking for detailed usage and
>> operation -- yet we have to be satisfied with "we will work out a plan to
>> make the CO-USE seamless when it isnt so at the other locations --
>> according to the operators of the rec. center.
>>
>> Personally, I still think that they are not going after Backus because
>> there are other plans -- other than UDC and they have plans for hamilton (
>> which is close enough to NY Ave Metro. By the way, as to the truancy issue
>> - kids travelling on a metro period is not helpful at all -- and how
>> dangeroys is it for our girls to be using the metro at that age - part of
>> the reason they are ending up pregnant. So please stop this metro nonsense.
>> What did we do before now -- Bunker Hill is not near a metro and Langdon is
>> not near a metro and last I checked, kids get to school at those locations.
>>
>>
>> Also, remember that kids from different neighborhoods being at a central
>> Rec. Center may come with some added issues that would be easier controlled
>> in a school setting but not open air recs. -- not that it couldn't be
>> worked out. My opinion -- it would be better to send the kids home or to
>> the rec. centers closer to home. 6 in one hand, 1/2 dozen in the other -
>> exceptbone might have some bodies and get innocent people hurt.
>>
>> Just some thoughts of 1 / 75,000 so we have all the points in the open
>> before we make a $50 Mil. decision. So everyone understands -- anything
>> over there will look better and create a better use overall. Whether it is
>> optimum is a different story.
>>
>> Rob Ramson
>>
>>
>> --
>> R. Ramson
>> 3744 12th Street, N.E.,
>> Washington D.C., 20017
>> 202-438-5988
>>
>> "We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
>> (Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jerome J. Peloquin" <jeromepeloquin@fastmail.fm> Mar 15 09:37PM -0400
>>
>> Has anyone noticed that the Brookland Inn is gone?
>>
>>
>> Jerry in Nostalgia
>>
>> ----- Original message -----
>> From: Rob <[1]indianrob@gmail.com>
>> To: [2]ward5@yahoogroups.com, [3]wardfive@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: [WardFive] Re: [ward5] Ward5 discusses proposed middle school
>> at Turkey Thicket in Brookland: Standalone vs. Co-location with
>> Recreation Center
>> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:02:52 -0400
>>
>> While we are at statements that makes no sense -- why do we need a
>> community garden? Build simething else. We should elimimate that and
>> make the roof an area that st
>>
>> --
>> --
>> WardFive@googlegroups.com is open to WardFive residents for community discussion and information sharing.
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