Re: [WardFive] Re: [ward5] Re: Misplaced outrage?

Hi Rob,

I would appreciate if you would refrain from the ad hominem attacks, not only are you (quite naturally) uninformed about me, my experiences, and beliefs, but those kinds of arguments also do a disservice to your other arguments that are actually about issues.  I don't know where you're getting the idea that I don't know about DC, that I don't know about the neighborhoods, that I don't know about the schools; but it doesn't matter.  It's a silly tactic to discredit my ideas regardless of their actual merit.  Let's just talk about issues relavent to our community, none of which have anything to do with any individual's life experiences, upbringing, or other beliefs and characteristics.  Let's keep this listserve a forum where everybody feels welcome to voice their opinions and concerns and be heard without fear of being attacked personally or have their ideas side-railed by ad hominem attacks.

I'm not sure we fully understood each other in our communication.  I wasn't advocating that we "take" from the police budget instead of schools, I was asking why you were so bent on framing streetcars as a mechanism to rob from children's education -- asking why you weren't framing it differently.  I'm suspicious that it's just a political trick that falsely frames one project at the expense of another you can expect people will be compassionate to, but was curious to know if you had an actual legitimate reason for framing it as such.  A legitimate reason would be something like if the budget for schools was reduced directly proportional to the budget for streetcar development, and no other operating budgets were reduced.  Did that happen?  I don't believe it did, nor is it planned to.  So I just don't understand your vitriol for the streetcar system, you work an attack into it in almost every email you send -- but I haven't read anything from you that uses reason to explain your opposition, just fatuous pseudo-arguments like the streetcar vs. kids claim, personal attacks on others, and references to your own sense of superiority, demanding others to defer to your "common sense" and experience.

My understanding of the streetcar plan was that it would include training programs for our youth -- I thought that was a good thing, not a detriment. I don't see how you empirically know that children's funding would lose money because of the streetcar, there's actual reasonable evidence to the contrary.  Maybe I missed that in your explanation, but your response to my question just seems to have been a reassertion of your assumption, credited only to "common sense."  As you know, common sense is not the same as empirical knowledge.  Not everybody thinks the same things are common sense, but empirical knowledge is impartial to personal opinion.  I want to know if you're making an argument, or just voicing an opinion.  Fortunately, this is a topic that lends itself to arguments, so we should be making those -- or at the very least, expressing informed opinions.  I just don't understand your vitriol for the streetcar system, you work an attack into it in almost every email you send -- but I haven't read anything from you that uses reason to explain your opposition, just fatuous pseudo-arguments, personal attacks on others, and references to your own superior common sense and experience.

You make a lot of claims about good things in the city like our stable real estate market and govt employment, (and you're right!) but remember that the reasons for lots of the good things happening are multi-faceted and quite varied -- one can't just assume they are that way "just because."  Mass transit infrastructure is important to maintaining and advancing our city and opportunities for all of our residents.  Although there are no streetcars running yet, there are certainly tracks laid down, and there have been plans for this streetcar for a long time.  You don't think any of that was in the minds, at least in part, of people picking a spot to build their new businesses, or choosing to move into the neighborhood and pay taxes, patronize businesses, and otherwise contribute to our community?  Really?  I'm sure that our local business owners and residents have the ability to plan ahead -- let's give people some credit here -- or just go out and ask them.  "Development"' doesn't just happen by magic -- there are reasons (lots of them).  Same goes for our education system -- it's not the way it is "just because," and therefore we should not do anything about it -- we need to know the reasons things are the way they are, and take action to make things better.

I think you lost me on why we shouldn't improve education and build mass transit opportunities at the same time.  I agree with you that our education system is in need of attention.  I don't quite see why our government should only support one thing at a time.  Not only would that approach be impractical, it would constitute a complete break with the historical role that governments have played.  Our government can do more than one thing at a time.  Pretending that it can't does nothing but ignore reality and try to force a false choice on people.  We don't have to choose between mass transit, clean water, and good educations for kids.  None of us should settle for being told we have to.

You keep asserting without explanation that supporting streetcars means a person is putting streetcars ahead of children.  I don't see how they're actually related any more than any other activity that the govt. does.  Actually, in the small ways that they are related, I expect them to actually contribute to the funding of education for kids.  Local school districts are funded by local property taxes.  Enhanced access to improved mass transit raises property values.  When property values go up, so does the associated tax revenue to the city.  So, when streetcars lead to increased property values, it leads directly to more funding for local schools.  If you disagree with that correlation, remember that it's an empirical question that can be reasonably answered with information more solid than a mere opinion.  Use reliable, agreed upon, observable, information to refute it if you disagree.  "Common sense" is not sufficient.

And yes, I'm aware that increased property values also have a cost.  The question is whether that cost outweighs the benefits, and to which groups those costs and benefits accrue.  Those are the kinds of questions a cost/benefit analysis actually addresses.  Also, you don't need any investment from other people to perform a cost/benefit analysis.  They're free to do (but very time intensive, and a good one typically--but not necessarily--requires education, which not everybody can afford/has access to.)

As to sitting in traffic while getting to work -- streetcars would reduce traffic congestion, saving working parent's (and every other driver) gas money and improving the air quality (think of the poor kids breathing that air!).  Some of the other options you listed for people to get around "compassionately"  are actually more expensive or far more slow/inconvenient than what the streetcar is planned to be (they're planned to be cheaper than what our current WMATA bus system charges!)  Why should people that live and work in our neighborhood have to pay Uber prices to get around quickly while other more affluent neighborhoods like Dupont and Foggy Bottom get to have the benefits of convenient metro access?  Don't the people in our neighborhood, including the kids and their families, deserve cheap, affordable transportation options too?  I think we do, especially the working parents that need every penny they've got to send their kids to school and keep healthy food on the table for their kids.  In the really affluent neighborhoods in DC, people all have their own cars (or two! or they have hire towncar drivers!), should everybody have to buy their own car/insurance/gas, so that the kids in our neighborhood can ...... not have a streetcar system that can lead to increased funding for schools through property taxes?  That doesn't make sense to me.  I certainly wouldn't call it common sense.  As far as I can tell, the very vocal small group of people that are working to delay the streetcar are doing more harm to DCs kids than good, despite their clearly good intentions.

I actually have performed a rudimentary, though fairly comprehensive, cost/benefit analysis of the proposed streetcar system in DC.  I'm hesitant to share it because I'm not sure I want to open myself up to the kind of off-the-wall personal attacks I've seen thrown around at people on this listserve and elsewhere on the local websites so frequently.  I'm just so sick of all the rudeness, negativity, and nastiness.  The other thing is that while it is less than 30 pages, the way it's written might not be entirely accessible to everyone.  At the same time, I'd love for people to actually pick apart the my analysis, find better ways to answer the questions it asks, update any conclusions that might not be true anymore, and ask all the questions that didn't get included.  I'd love to have a real conversation with people about what the actual costs and benefits of the streetcar system would be, who it would effect, and how.  I'd love if our community could, together, come up with ways to maximize the benefits and minimize the costs, and then use those arguments to petition our elected officials to make things better.  Let's rise above the silly divisiveness, NIMBYism, and demagoguery.  Polemic, immature, and untrue statements tantamount to "Well if you like the streetcar then you hate kids!" at best serve only to distract from real solutions, and at worst are actually harmful to our community (including the kids here!)  I'm going to keep thinking on whether to share my CBA, and what the best way to do it would be.  I'd love for a reasoned and civil conversation to occur on the very important issue of developing our streetcar system.  I don't know if anybody else on this listerve is with me on that or if they're all just chuckling because I'm trying to reason with crazy.  Maybe both ;)

-Jared-

On Friday, July 20, 2012 1:50:40 AM UTC-4, Rabindranauth Ramson wrote:

Hello Jared,

 

Anyways, to answer your specific questions - I started with your last question first as I think we could agree on this approach right away and get the street car operational;

 

7. As to funding children's funds - we would have lost a generation or two by then. I understand that this is not your focus so it is obviously not important to you. I guarantee that if we took more police off the street, you would start crying. Here is a idea, let's take money from the Police Department, take 50 million out of their budget - first out of the 5th District's and give you your street car - I am willing to do that.Let's see how that turns out and if you are alive to give me the link to that emperical data. I like this idea the best. I am ready to ask for this 1st thing tomorrow.

1. Here is what I emperically know - every child that we lose the money from the street car could have possibly saved - just from fixing the environment. Helping with the undergrounding of wires (however it is done), could save us millions in food and stress and lives. Same with the water. Unless you are also bathing in Spring Water!!

2. Why don't you tell me how you justify 2 billion and subsidizing - don't use "development" as that is not relevant to DC as we don't have 1 street car on the road yet we are developing everything and asking for height increase. H St. was going to be redeveloped because Capitol Hill was expanding and SE is getting Homeland Security and Gentrification was coming so Street cars wasn't needed.

3. The reason that DC shouldn't do both is that while you and your kids might have education and opportunity and maybe a inheritance or the ability to leave an inheritance, there are so many that don't. Since I know that you have read some of my writing, you might be one of the ones who have really benefited off of the "B(l)acks" of others, just being White, a stable drug free household, etc. or we can say you are just one of the lucky ones or you just took advantage of school.

4 I keep saying so because until you and others who have, the Mayor, the Deputy Mayor and the rest of those fine folks put their children in those schools that I am talking about and let their kids play on those playgrounds and in those rec centers, then don't ask me any more STUPID questions like this.

5. Actually, I have no problems with the Govt. putting a speed camera on every block in the city as long as they are putting them evenly on the west side of town at the same rate. Maybe we can fund everything. As long as the money is dedicated to funding the schools, recs, fields, replacing outdated infrastructure etc.

6. No. Because DDot has already stated that. Maybe you should ask them that question.   

 

 

Anyways, maybe we can get back to common sense - I think that Mr. Peloquin covered the basics.  I don't know if you need a CBA to use common sense.  In the business world, it comes down to supply and demand.  In Washington DC, unlike most other places, we don't need any real incentives to attract people (gentrification) or development. 

 

a. The reason that Walmart wants to put 6 stores is because there is a market for it. 

 

b. The reason that a Costco is putting a location between Beltsville and Arlington, both of which are on our borders is amazing. 

 

c. The fact that our Deputy Mayor is licking his chops when he says he has 42 Cranes in the Sky and excited about putting more up says alot.  Did you know that most/almost all of those crains are nowhere near the Street Cars lines being installed or planned??? 

 

d. The simple fact that city life in the city with highest govt employment is on the rise.

 

e.  No one likes being stuck in traffic to come to work.

 

f.  We have one of the most stable real estate markets and rising here.

 

Like I said, I don't think that we need to spend 2 Billion and operate a "fancy bus" that will need an added subsidy is necessary in this environment especially when we have other more important things to do.  I don't think you or any responsible person would disagree if this was your household. 

 

To answer your question, I did not do a "CBA" but if they give me the money, I would be glad to do it.  What I would like to do with you (if you support this expenditure) and others, I would like to take you to certain parts of the city and really introduce you to the neighborhoods (lots of them), take you inside some of the schools there as well as in the more affluent areas and you tell me that we should continue to put Street Cars ahead of our children.

 

Then, I want you to understand about the water you and all of us bathe in and realize that it is so chemically treated and probably is full of lead that we are slowly being poisoned.  Maybe you should go research the Cost Benefits Analysis of starting to re-do our infrastructure.  In Robby's case, his dumb argument is that it would take forever and will have to be done over.  The reality is that at least our kids will be less poisoned and the simple fact that we need to start sometime.  Hell, the Street car is going to take forever as well. 

 

I could go on but I don't know about you, I would think that the compassionate thing to do would be to ride the bus, ride the bike, walk, catch a Uber taxi, do what ever it would take to allow for our kids to have the same opportunities as those in affluent partsof town.  For sure, Development is coming, regardless and we could have transportation for much less - even if we move to all electic buses to be more clean!

 

Here is a question for you - Do you travel First Class when you fly and do you think that most others do.  Why would you and others want to travel first Class here at the expense of others future.  Anyways, let's take a ride sometime and see if you would want your child to be raised in those conditions. Let me expose you to all of DC 

 

That is the only type of CBA I can give you.  But, I think Mr. Peloquin covered the much of the rest well.

 

In closing, how did you like taking the money from the Police budget for the Street Cars.  Interesting to see who gets Robbed first - never know, it could be me tomorrow.  So - here is an answer, lets put in speed cameras, use the money to fund the schools, etc. invest in educatng and allowing for better opportunity for kids which would eventually lower street type crime so we then take their increase tax base as employed, business owners, homeowners and then get back to the street cars.  How about that route.  Do I need empirical data for that or is common sense and experience good enough.

 

Rob 

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Jared <jaredthomasmeyer@gmail.com> wrote:

Rob, I've seen you ask before where the cost/benefit analysis is for the streetcar project. I appreciate that people shouldn't be arguing to do (or not do) something of this scale without properly investigating it first, and I'm sure we agree on that point.  

You're a very vocal opponent of the streetcar system, and since we both agree that a person shouldn't advocate for one thing or another without knowing the facts first, you must have seen or even performed a CBA on the issue.  There must be some empirical investigation that informs your opinion, right?  Can you share it with the rest of us?  I'm sure you're not guilty of doing what you accuse our city officials of doing -- jumping to a conclusion without getting the facts about how the streetcar would actually impact us in all sorts of ways.  Please share with us the cost/benefit analysis that you have either performed or read so we know where your opinions are coming from and can engage with you at the same level of understanding you seem to have.  If you've already sent out a link to the research in one of your previous messages and I missed it, my apologies.

There's one argument you make in particular that I'm really interested in.  You keep on insinuating that DC has to make a choice between providing funds for children's education or for the streetcar.  I'm not sure why DC can't do both, or why funding mass transit can only happen at the expense of funding children's education.  Why do you keep saying so?  Why can't streetcar funding be at the expense of funding meter maids, or speed trap cameras?  Why do you think it's shortchanging children's education, specifically?  Why don't you frame your question as "Would you rather DC subsidize the streetcar or add more speed trap cameras?" Could it be possible that the streetcar system, when complete, will actually generate revenue (or at least lose less than our current mass transit options) and so actually provide increased funds to children's education (or meter maids, whatever)?  If you say "no," tell us, how do you know?

I hope I'm not just feeding a troll here, but I really want to know what you're basing such a strong opposition of the streetcar on, and whether it's on any sort of empirical study or just anecdotal presumptions.  If you're looking for some real data and at least a starting point for a solid CBA, I might be able to help.  Just don't want to reinvent the wheel if it's already out there though.

Thanks,

-Jared-

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:15:24 PM UTC-4, Rabindranauth Ramson wrote:

Was that just a garbage rant or are  you finally out of smoke?

Thanks for telling me about Anthony Williams.  I think that more peoole know more about all this as you were riding big wheels while others were paying real bills.  Answer the question and don't skirt the issue.  We know that waste occurs but what would you rather do dammit?  you brought up funding!!

You see, I am not a wide eyed teenager that you can impress with flapping your gums - I nred substance. I have made more mistakes than you have had successes.  These gray hairs are not painted on. As I exhale, you should inhale. Imagine, my carbon dioxide has more life giving force than your oxygen tank.  It is called experience. You might get some sense if you stop riding that fence and settle down.

I told you before that too much information without UTIZING YOUR ABILITY to properly process or digest usually is referred to as vomit and is wasteful of your abilities.  Stop talking and understand when someone is extending to you life experience and love.  You need to start being your brother's keeper and use your energy as such - to figure out the possibilities.

As for your "demand education", we can get that and trust me that it is the extra curricular work that is needed.  Remember - the idle mind is the devil's workshop so I need us to occupy as much of our youth time with productive experiences that it will create a more positive habit/focus.

Rob

On Jul 18, 2012 7:48 PM, "Eric J. Jones" <ejjones.threed@gmail.com> wrote:

Rob,

You should spend some time becoming more familiar with the development plans and processes in this city before you make statements. The fact of the matter is that much of the change on H street was planned because of the groundwork to bring them back a decade ago.

Likewise many of the plans east of the river including the delay in projects east of the river is directly connected to this issue.

You talk about the growth and development you see, but much of the private work is 5 - 10 years in the making and much of it goes back to Anthony Williams.

But I'm not going to go back and forth with you and others on the list serve as it serves no purpose for me and helps me get very few of my goals accomplished. This is why I stepped back from this medium and plan to continue to do so.

As for your last question, additional resources for education isn't the issue. It is how the resources are being squandered currently. You see we don't need to supplement education, wr need to demand and required it.

It isn't by accident that in order the wards with the highest rates of unemployment and residents with criminal backgrounds also have the lowest levels of high school graduates. We continue to talk of giving people fish instead of teaching them how to fish and in turn we are creating generations of dependent folks.

With that said, I wish everyone a good evening. It's family time.

Eric J. Jones
- ejjones.threed@gmail.com

On Jul 18, 2012 7:12 PM, "Rob" <indianrob@gmail.com> wrote:

So here are two things I woukd like to share .

1.  Remember those pyramid Schemes to get make 2500, 5000 +.Remember what happened to those who joined last.  Well, Mr. Gray just got caught up in this whole Campaign funding Pyramid Scheme.  I don't know if he is guilty and definitely don't want nothing bad happening to him. However, that entire mentality/culture of what "public service" currently is needs to change.  I am sure whatever he may be guilty of, so many others have the exact same hustle box checked off with 5 Stars.

2.  As to where Street Cars is right now - I heard a story when I was little of a man who had an orchard and also had some lazy children who refused to work.  On his deathbed, he said that he had hidden a large chest full of gold coins buried in the orchard but he was sure it wasn't buried within 10 feet of the trees. Well his children got together and dug up the entire orchard but out of sheer laziness, never got within 10 feet of the trees and never disturbed the roots. They finally gave up after they found nothing and cursed their dead father. 

The very next season, the fruits were bountiful and harvest made them rich.  See, while the father was alive, he could never afford to hire people to toil the soil and his kids were too lazy to help. 

The moral in the story as it relatws to DC is that we have this beautiful property and because we are all creatures who like "nice" things/$$$, H st. was changed and now without the "chest of gold", it is bearing fruits. Trust and believe since Homeland Security is coming to St. Elizabeth, that whole area is about to change as well.  H st. and S.E. Will bear fruits. IT IS THE MINDSET that needed to be changed. 

The gold coins is the H st. Community the way it is now. We really don't need to spend 50+ million more and operate forever on a deficit to enjoy the fruits.  Be Smart. You wouldn't waste any more money if this was your household.

As to "how govt. works" - Can we evolve or do we continue to operate as if we live in a Cave.

As to maintaining the schools and programs, our fraternity and sorority system was set up for exactly this.  That is the goal.  Our kids needs every opportunity that we can give. 

Here is the Question I have for you - WOULD YOU, GRAY AND THE REST RATHER SUPPLEMENT THE STREET CAR OR WOULD YOU RATHER SUPPLEMENT THE KIDS EDUCATION/PROGRAM FUND?

It is yours and other folks perspective that needs to change - Mr. Gray included.  While I often jab at you, it is because I care.  Hopefully you and others are getting immersed in some logic.

Rob Ramson

On Jul 18, 2012 5:38 PM, "Rob" <indianrob@gmail.com> wrote:

Let me just reply quickly SPUR GROWTH IN DC - are you kidding me.  Do you see any %%%:%/% Street Cars rignt now but how much growth is here and how much is planned.  If no street cars come, the developers are still digging.  TRUST ME!  That "Jim Jones Koolaid is too heavenly sweet that you are drinking.  Stand back from the forest and maybe you will start seeing clearer.  You are on well on your way but tiptoe and open your eyes and start thinking. You are quite. capable. I will get to the rest later.

On Jul 18, 2012 5:09 PM, "Eric J. Jones" <ejjones.threed@gmail.com> wrote:

First, it is on the council webpage at WWW.dccouncil.us look for the link to hearings and pull up that hearing.

Secondly, you keep on talking of just spending and putting money in certain areas and that is not how government or budgeting works.

You put programs at the school yet we don't have the resources to support them. Now before you get back in that same BS bandwagon about streetcars you can't use all of that money for that use. Secondly, the goal of street cars is to hopefully spur growth.

Unfortunately the areas of ivy city/Trinidad have two fairly new recreation centers which can house many if the programs being mentioned.

As far the legislation it is not about the depth of it, there are legality issues, compliance issues as well as significant cost for the city for staff, new systems, etc that can't be met.  I actually find it problematic that you are speaking so highly of legislation that it is clear you haven't fully read or researched. It almost sounds like you are attempting to carry water for someone.

If we as residents are going to continue to push and complain wr need to come with recommendations that have been researched and solutions based strictly on that information.

Folks keep on yelling about what they want and then expect someone else to do the leg work of figuring out if it is possible or how to make it work.

Eric J. Jones
- ejjones.threed@gmail.com

On Jul 18, 2012 3:28 PM, "Rob" <indianrob@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric,

 

I am absolutely sure that there are many issues with VO's legislation.  Most of these legislations are only SKELETONS of what they need to be.  This does seem like he has good intentions as well as it makes him grow his support. The reality is that unless we really expose the CM's and force closing the Loopholes, they "hear" but really don't HEAR what is being said at those hearings. 

 

Can you get me the tape of that session and a copy of the bill so that we can go over it with some other folks.  This would be a good way for us to start pushing them. 

As for the rest of the BS about outside employment, there are many people who are qualified and willing to perform duties of a CM without having outside employment with companies who have any type of affilitation with DC.  Let those willing and able people be Civil SERVICE. For all those who want to be "partners" in Law Firms and VP's in subsideries, let them focus on contributing to those companies at 100%. 

 

Let's be leaders in Change.  By taking away the temptation, it allows for successful behavior - damn near guarantees it.  Let's not fool ourselves that we can put kids into candy factories and them not eat any.  Or maybe I can get you to remember Kris Rock in New Jack City!!!  Let's set the system where Lobbying would be limited to sending in complaints and the Council putting Laws in place to remedy the issues affecting the community.

 

BOTTOM LINE - I don't want to wait every 4 years to hopefully vote someone out and still have to possibly face the same issues.  As for the Mayor, HIS personal shortcomings are his issues at home - when his decisions are causing this much grief and outrage, he is difinitely missing something - that is personal shortcomings.  The problem he has and many other of our CM's have are that they don't think things through and make fair decisions. 

 

For example, if he never pushed the "street car", there would be no outrage and even if there was, those people would sound really stupid when they said that our City should spend money on Street Cars instead of Schools and other higher priority infrastructure - especially if the answer is to convert to Electric Buses.  They would pretty much have to come out and say that WE don't want to ride on the Bus so spend 2 Billion to make us Look/Feel GOOD/Superior when we ride.  There definitely would have been no one fussing over a "Barn" at Spingarn.

 

Another example, If he said no to the buses on Crummel and put them at the "other" place that Mike said that they would put it if something else comes along, there would be no issues.  If he had spent some of that H Street Capital money fixing The CRUMMEL School, that area could have had a good tutoring/rec center with great basketball courts and maybe an olympic pool that we could have Swim Meets.  How about putting some money into creating opportunity for folks to enhance themselves with classrooms that we could set up some after school scholastic and workforce development to keep the youth occupied and out of the street and retool our adults so that they could Lead their households.      

 

It ain't that hard.  PUT THE BUSES over off of QUEENS CHAPEL (right off Bladensburg and New York) where they are storing JUNK DESKS and JUNK COMPUTERS AND CABINETS.  No one around that location to be upset.

 

REALLY, IT AIN'T that hard. So, you don't have to physically STEAL kids money or order TWO ESCALADES when you are really STEALING the FUTURE from your YOUTH and their PARENTS by limiting OPPORTUNITY and SPENDING 2 Billion on a Street Car System that you can do with maybe 1- 200 million.  EITHER WAY, ERIC it is THEFT and that is Personal Shortcomings.  Worse, he is a Black Man who is further OPPRESSING his People whether he/they want to admit or not.  There is absolutely no difference in him and HARRY!!  Let's be real!  They could say the same thing for me, maybe you and so many others who have made mistakes and bad choices but it is the level of where this is and the overall affect that is having as well as the position that he holds and the DUTY that WAS SWORN IN TO DO.  Remember, a Mother always takes care of the weak and a Commander always secures his weak side.  The Enemy Armies always ATTACK the WEAK SIDE of the Wall when they are Conquering other KINGDOMS and destroying cultures!  SAD that this is happenning by one of our own.  It was really great to see the diversity in support of the CRUMMEL on Monday Night.   

 

Rob Ramson  

 

 

 

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Eric J. Jones <ejjones.threed@gmail.com> wrote:

Rob,

There are several issues with VO's legislation. While his intent may be well, there are several problems with it. The head of DSLBD spoke a lot about this in his testimony.

As for the issues about problems with money in politics that is an excuse.

Many other major cities allow outside employment and don't have the issues we have. Hell the President of the Atlanta City Council is a Partner in a Major International Law Firm, yet he doesn't have those issues.

We are the issue, we elect folks who act this way. This city has constantly discouraged many folks who would be great public servants from considering it and continue to do so.

As for Mr. Thompson and his two companies, they have been successful for years yet DC is the only place in which he has been tied to issues such as this. I think a great deal of it was disrespect for local residents and the need to stroke his own ego. No matter the reason this isolated incidence has caused major issues.

As for the mayor, I will say again that he is in an unfortunately situation. No matter if he was involved or not he has the impression of a Culture of Corruption circling around him which is unfortunate.

Unlike the issues which faced HTJ and KB the Mayor's issues are not personal short comings and eventually he will have to answer for them like the head coach or head of a company.

In closing maybe we as a city and as residents will finally get off the sidelines and truly get serious on a broader level about the issues facing our city.

Eric J. Jones
- ejjones.threed@gmail.com

On Jul 18, 2012 12:18 PM, "Rob" <indianrob@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Hello Everyone,

 

Personally, I made some mistakes in life and at 43, I know who is crooked and who is not and what not mistakes to repeat, who not to be around, etc.  In perspective, the Mayor deserves his due process just as anyone has the right to ask him to resign if they want to - for whatever reason.  So, I am with anyone who wants to change the system so that no campaign gets funded over the set limits they have now and there can be no "mailing" done by unions or corporations or anything like that, work done by out of state folks, no Thompson's or Mary's, No Toms,  or ..... , etc. 

 

Also, I am with anyone who wants no Govt. official to accept anything other than their paycheck or they get prosecuted.  At the Salaries they make, there is no need for outside income from companies doing business in DC.  I am for letting the public know when every meeting is schedule in advanced, with who, for what purpose and to be video and audio taped. These types of regulations will help to keep people in line.

 

The saddest thing about all that is occurring is that Our Mayor is 69 years old and there is no excuse for him at this age to be making the types of mistakes that he is making.  Also, much worse is the decisions that he is forcing on his Black communities with no regard to their input. It was tough riding through IVY CITY the other night and being reminded how impoverished some parts of our community really are (relatively speaking to being in the Capital City of United States/The World).  This is the saddest part of all the Sad things that are occurring.  For all this campaign issues as I am sure that all of our CM's could be peeled back like a banana to expose how green or ripe they really are with corruption. 

 

It is truly SAD how the decisions are being made with the lack of respect for the residents of Our City; especially when it is seems like the decision to or not to do something of priority is based on how it will benifit the carreer (in or our of govt) or pockets (their own, family or friends) of many of our CM's and our Mayor and some of our other Govt. Officials like the Deputy Mayors and next level management and contract issuers, etc..  Most of these individuals are just simply drunk with power addicted to $$ 

 
As to the Double Standard - it exists.

 

1.  At our Local Ward 5 level, you have those who protest a Liquor License over parking for a Black Business with some parking and not for a White Business with no parking. But our some of our residents are cool with that.

2.  We have our some of our ANC vote against the SAP in Brookland (which is part of the law) in the 901 Monroe issue, probably for the financial and vote support in their movement to run for public office and for "love" from the Wilson Bldg - with no care for the people closest to the project.

 

3.  At the next level, We have a Vote from the Zoning Commission breaking the SAP of Brookland, probably because the orders came from the Wilson Bldg.

4.  We have decisions being made about "Vanity" style transportation (Street Cars) when we have more important Capital Improvement to be made.

5.  We have things being placed in communities like 6 MM cultivation spots when they could be spread out all over.

6.  We have Strip Clubs being focused in our community when they should be shared a burden/amenity

7.  We have NO to putting a Trolly Barn in Ward 7 Green Space but OK for Ward 5 Green Space

8.  We have "interim" BUS parking in an already depressed neighborhood when they should be looking at revival of the community.

9.  We have Vincent Orange trying to put together a bill to fix a problem with Small Business Strangulation that should have been done a long time ago but none of our CM's did anything.

10.  We have a Ethics reformation that left so many loopholes and areas that CM's could continue the rapist culture of their position/politics that makes us into our Govt. Officials Prostitutes

 

So, why does it surprise anyone of the double standard that is occuring with Mayor Gray. The Fact is that this is so much bigger than Mr. Gray.  While he is to blame for all those decisions from Suliman Brown to ....... and insensitivity to our most needing communities, the reality is WE ARE THE ONES TO BLAME as we either continue to be selfish or sell ourselves for pennies so we will continue to get a "PENNY'S" worth of Service and Respect. 

 

Mr. Peloquin and a few others have been saying it for a while - We need to Change the System and then when the People takes those position, they will be forced to conform.  Looking forward to focusing on getting the SERVICE turned back on in the term PUBLIC SERVICE. 

 

Rob Ramson.

 

 

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:26 AM, K <cooperator@starpower.net> wrote:

 

Julianne,

We seem to be on the same page about a lot of things -- including not wanting to see Mayor Gray railroaded out of office if he truly wasn't a part of his campaign's violations.

But I think the investigations and prosecutions -- where a criminal case exists -- need to move forward.

And with all of the longstanding political corruption that most of us on this list know exists in D.C.'s local government, there's a small part of me that is wondering if Mayor Gray was set up during his campaign so that somebody could try to pull the plug on his mayoralty as soon as Gray tried to get in the way of some project or gravy train for somebody who's among those milking D.C.

Let's see how far the prosecution of Jeff Thompson and other politicians ever gets....

--Kathy Sinzinger

--- In ward5@yahoogroups.com, "Julianne M. Robertson King" <kingjulianne@...> wrote:
>

> I'm not invested in having the last word, so I'm sure this chain will continue...
>

> That said, you make my point with the Edwards case by pointing out that his prosecution took place AFTER the election.  Heck even monstrous, blood thirsty savages like Slobodan Milosevic in Serbia or Charles Taylor of Liberia served for years and were LATER prosecuted.  Here, we have someone whose involvement with and personal knowledge of the disputed campaign funds is not clear, and we want him to run away and disrupt the operation of the government and abandon his office?  Some operations of the government will grind to a screeching halt.  Surely that's not the outcome you want.  Should he be tried later?  That's not my call.
>
>
> The historical precedent for this scenario was set forth in the early 1990's. Frankly the Iran-Contra crisis should have resulted in George Herbert Walker Bush, Ed Meese, Cap Weinberger and a whole host of other folks to have gone to jail, but instead we (sort of) elected Bush's son to the Presidency.  We see how that worked out...

>
>  
>
> Julianne M. Robertson King Esq.
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any computerized telephonic communications (skype, etc.) may be protected by attorney-client or work product privilege. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender, Julianne M. Robertson King at (202) 200-9273 and delete the e-mail without recording its contents in any manner.J
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: K <cooperator@...>

> To: ward5@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:54 AM
> Subject: [ward5] Re: Misplaced outrage?
>
>

>  

> If you really believe that self-government is what's at stake here, I believe you are addressing that feared loss in precisely the wrong way.
>
> Digging in one's heals to preserve a long-corrupt system -- rather than fighting alongside the people who are trying to root out the corruption -- sends the wrong message to Congress.
>
> Federal prosecutors should be seen as HELPING US GET CONTROL OF OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT, rather than trying to take it away from us with these prosecutions.
>
> You know, federal prosecutors work for all of us D.C. residents as federal taxpayers, too.
>
> --Kathy Sinzinger
>

> --- In ward5@yahoogroups.com, "Julianne M. Robertson King" <kingjulianne@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Lol,
> >

> > I've been accused of a lot of things, but naive isn't one of them.  I will keep my own counsel about when to flick the outrage switch, but I can understand why others might allow this contrivance to cause them to react.  Outrage shuts your rational mind down.  It keeps you from critically analysing the situation.  I never said I wasn't deeply disappointed, hurt and betrayed, but those are emotional responses.  The only response that matters is that we fight to preserve our right to elect a Council and Mayor and to have them serve at the pleasure of the electorate.  That's what's at stake here, and they want you to miss it.  Don't let it happen.  I'm on your side.

> >
> >
> > Julianne M. Robertson King Esq.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and any computerized telephonic communications (skype, etc.) may be protected by attorney-client or work product privilege. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender, Julianne M. Robertson King at (202) 200-9273 and delete the e-mail without recording its contents in any manner.J
> >
> >
> > ________________________________

> > From: "jeromepeloquin@" <jeromepeloquin@>

> > To: ward5@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:36 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ward5] Misplaced outrage?
> >
> >

> >  
> > Once more dear friends ... into the breach ... I take your point but fear you miss mine completely!  The Gray/Thompson affair is merely symptomatic of the deeper root cause.  There is a cancer growing on our government and way of life ... unless we act as a people, it is terminal.  
> >  
> > This is the cancerous and devastating effect of money in the political process.  We can never eliminate greed, but we can remove it to the extent possible ... Please Ms. King, do not be naive.  People like Thompson do not give money for nothing.  I have seen how lobbyists work ... and so, must I believe, have you.   Most of our elected leaders have sold themselves in one way or another.  It is the avowed job of the lobbyist.(damn them) to subvert the official to their bidding.  
> >  
> > Madam, it appears to me that you and those who quibble over small cuts, while we bleed to death as a nation are part of the problem.  Why, as an officer of the court, are you not outraged when you see such blatant misuse of the public trust?   How many Council members and their aids need to go to jail before you realize that the system is corrupt and MUST be replaced.
> >  

> > Nothing short of complete legislative and judicial reform will do.

> >  
> > Jerry in opposition
> >  

> > ----- Original message -----
> > From: "Julianne M. Robertson King" <kingjulianne@>

> > To: "ward5@yahoogroups">ward5@yahoogroups.com" <ward5@yahoogroups">ward5@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [ward5] Misplaced outrage?
> > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 06:02:09 -0700 (PDT)

> >  
> >  
> >  
> > I would be completely outraged if it was clear that Gray gave quid pro quo to Thompson in exchange for those funds, but the DOJ has declined to assert that.  It would be a matter then of having an elected leader having sold himself, but I don't see it.  It's also disheartening to have this played out in leaks, as if people dont see that the real objective is to create just this controversy we are playing out.  Not falling for it.
> >  
> >
> > Julianne M. Robertson King Esq.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and any computerized telephonic communications (skype, etc.) may be protected by attorney-client or work product privilege. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender, Julianne M. Robertson King at (202) 200-9273 and delete the e-mail without recording its contents in any manner.J

> >  
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: KPW <WKPW3@>

> > To: ward5@yahoogroups">ward5@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ward5] Misplaced outrage?
> >

> >  

> > I would like to know if money people like Thompson do this across the country. Is this unique to D.C.?
> >
> > Also, have some of the people that have been in their elected positions since the 20th century done anything wreckless like this? Are others squeaky clean? When one asks for someone else's resignation, does that mean the person is never under review or question? I've heard councilmembers accused of conflict of interest and one never sees a full scale review.
> >
> > There's need for a lot of outrage over a lot of things in this city and country. Sometimes other things seem to take priority in the list for outrage. I don't know if Thompson is a bad guy or whether he was playing the game like he was taught by the real money people.
> >

> > "Julianne M. Robertson King" <kingjulianne@> wrote:
> >
> > >"Sometimes letting things go is an act of far greater power than defending or hanging on." - Eckhart Tolle. 
> > >
> > >
> > >Personally, outrage is a paralyzing, nonproductive space to be in.  Jeff Thompson funded campaigns all over the country, and I think PACs are a way to game the system, but they've been around as a campaign tool since Franklin Roosevelt.  For me, the greater outrage is that DC elected officials are now subject to an additional level of scrutiny AFTER they have been declared the winner and sworn in.  That violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the Home Rule Charter.  Our independence is being threatened, and my question is:  "Who stands the most to gain by taking our leaders out?"
> > >
> > > 

> > >
> > >Julianne M. Robertson King Esq.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >This e-mail and any computerized telephonic communications (skype, etc.) may be protected by attorney-client or work product privilege. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender, Julianne M. Robertson King at (202) 200-9273 and delete the e-mail without recording its contents in any manner.J
> > >
> > >
> > >________________________________
> > > From: K <cooperator@>

> > >To: ward5@yahoogroups">ward5@yahoogroups.com
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:46 AM
> > >Subject: [ward5] Misplaced outrage?
> > >
> > >

> > > 

> > >Most of us would probably agree that the shadow campaign for Vince Gray was both wrong and stupid.
> > >
> > >What I don't really understand is why no one seems to be damning Jeff Thompson for his apparent key role in perpetrating this shadow campaign.
> > >
> > >Where is the outrage over the person who apparently FUNDED this shadow campaign? And the outrage over all of our tax dollars that Jeff Thompson has been apparently converting into campaign cash over the years?
> > >
> > >None of this bad stuff happens in campaigns without the money, folks. Why aren't you angry over THAT and showing just a little bit of outrage over the great possibility that our tax dollars may have been either willfully or incidentally converted into campaign money to undermine fair campaigning for local elective offices for many, many years?
> > >
> > >None of this stuff started with Vince Gray's campaign, and anyone who is either active in D.C. politics or pays close attention knows that full well.
> > >
> > >And no -- I'm not trying to excuse anything that went wrong in Vince Gray's campaign. I'm just trying to understand why people in this town would rather jockey for political advantage over something like this rather than rooting out the real problems.
> > >
> > >Educate me.
> > >
> > >--Kathy Sinzinger
> > >
> > >
> > >

> >  
> >  
> >  
> >
>

--
R. Ramson
3744 12th Street, N.E.,
Washington D.C., 20017
202-438-5988

"We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
(Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)




 

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202-438-5988

"We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
(Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)




 

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3744 12th Street, N.E.,
Washington D.C., 20017
202-438-5988

"We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
(Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)




 

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