Robby,
Now for you - I haven't forgotten your self pity attempt at gaining some support. First let me deal with your "self hating Black Gay Guy" comment. If this is what you get from what I wrote in a previous email 3 weeks ago that you "didn't initially read" and was informed about it (REALLY), it shows what me rising your Cognitive Dissonance level has hit home. So you get it clearly, I just said you had an inner conflict and projected your disdain for your own culture; had nothing to do with "Self Hate"!! You see "unworthy" and "unacceptable" are much different than "Self Hate" - so you can try having that BS psychological conversation with the kids in your sandbox - I ain't the one. And before you start the homophobe angle, know that I am referring to years past when your homosexuality would have been much less acceptable - especially in the Black culture. If you continue to lay your head on my couch, I will continue to break you down further if you like but I think you get it. I don't have anything against you but I am not going to stand by and watch you be disrespectful to Mrs. Alice and not reign you in; especially since Mrs. Alice was only vocalizing the frustrations shared by so many - Black and White. I copied my previous statement below just so you and others could re-read before all of you start to coagulate your thoughts down the narrow minded path you would like others to follow you on;
"The irony in all of this is that he does love DC, our kids, our neighborhoods etc., but an inner conflict causes him to project his disdain for his own culture so that he could be accepted by others since his own doesn't accept him".
Allow me to divert - You and others who refuse to deal with your (conscious or subsconscious) ghosts of past and inability to be compassionate to anything but dogs, cats and wants of the previleged, you really need to expand your thinking. Robby, when I met your friend at the Spingarn meeting, his repeatitive ignorant/self serving statement around me was "I hate White People". But I understand that as a White person in denial, his focus on making that statement around me shows that my statements are thoughts bubbling in his head. So you know, I have had a few Whites in this neighborhood say that I make sense and it will take time for people to understand and change. So, while he and some others would like to scapegoat their thought process on me, internally they know that what I am saying makes full sense and it is a struggle to fully digest the reality of selfish/warped perspective. Almost no one likes negative reflection in the mirror of life. Dealing with ones personal oppressive realities are even more of a challenge.
So to be clear, I don't hate or even dislike white people and I won't be spending time justifying or clarifying, other than I just call it as I see it!! I understand the depth of the dissonance that needs to be stirred as once identified, will hopefully balance logic and priorities at a higher level - and that is what hope is all about. I will only repeat - 43 years of being from one of the most progressive and diverse families around with 98% of 90+ family members being inter-racial allows me ownership on that block of race reality and experience. I don't think there is a topic regarding racial issues that we haven't covered as a family. And Robby, you comment directed at me about "self hating Black Gay Guy" fits right in with his statement to me about me hating Whites. I don't have a problem having the discussion about White/Black issues that we face as a community and I don't have have a problem having the discussion about any issues of/between the Homosexual/heterosexual communities. I am for being HUMAN!!!
So Robby, when you write this CRAP, "Again, Rob, I know to you I'm an aloof, didactic, petulant, self aggrandizing queer", it is your brain trying to create balance when confronted with reality. That's why I ignored your email to me about how "hurtful" my email was. You didn't care about how how "hurtful" it was to Mrs. Alice!! I told you before, you know who and where to make these comments. I have yet to see apologies to me or others on this list serv about violent, racial, prejudice, inconsiderate comments and actions that have been made and done; especially none from you to Mrs. Alice. So you know, I actually think that you care and want things to be better like so many others and that you are intelligent, however you writing shows that you lack on hand experience and compassion and most important, understanding what it takes for individual behavioral transformation to occur. I don't deal will with inconsistencies. Similar to our school system - the curriculum is not set up to teach our youth where they are, but to where they should be - and geared towards testing but not actual performance/comprehension. It sounds like a familiar tune you are singing about your expectations of where people should be and not where they are and how they should be cut off !!!
The rest that you wrote is very poetic and nice song for a CROW to sing while he is circling above waiting for his next meal to die, but I think that before cutting folks off, I would rather encourage society to repay its Debt of their Successes or participation in the Inflictment by continuing to train and train until folks re-enter the realms of being productive in life. Most people would like the opportunity get to a more prideful and respectuful position in life. A few quotes from the Batman Movie - "YOU HAVE TO INVEST IF YOU WANT TO RESTORE BALANCE TO SOCIETY". "Structures becomes shackles" and that is exactly what our govt. has allowed - the current structure and many of the community mindset/practices has created shackles!
If you don't get the CROW identifier above, let me be more clear - get your BLACK _____ out from behind that computer with all your *&*^^)(^%&*^ and come do some ____ _______ work. Don't be like others and think you can out wait people being developed out or jailed out of society. Remember, on the way to JAIL, Crimes are committed and those Crimes one day might touch you or someone you know. Part of life is to invest in making the world a better place and helping folks by meeting them where they are and pulling them up. Stop waiting for our folks to fall further and be preyed upon.
As for govt. - contrary to what you said, it is personal not business. Govt. should never be business. While they definitely have made it a business to become rich and stay in positions of power, the role of government is to SERVE THE PEOPLE first - and that's personal. Utilizing a sound business approach is a different matter. Almost nothing about what they DO in the Wislon Bldg is about Servicing the people first. If it was, those decisions would be much different and the deals would be structured so that the community comes out at least even and more so on top. If it was about "business" like you said, then the Community would definitely come out on top - because that is what BUSINESES DO. Like I said, these CM's are have to be fully out of touch or they make decisions based on how they will benefit. In 2012, Vincent Orange would not be now trying to fix something that should have been fixed a long time ago - that is if our "leaders" were really concerned about the Community first. The reality is that he, like others won't include all that is necessary to make this bill airtight as possible just like the Ethics Bill and just like the Bill to bill to keep Living Social here in DC which was signed by the Mayor a few days ago. While it is important to keep Living Social or attract other Companies here, the parameters of the Bill probably did not include the necessary restraints that would make their presence as strong and beneficial to the City as it should be. Like with this Bill, the most important testimony is usually not included so these bills are usually SKELETONS of what they should be; of course to benefit the company and/or the CM under the guise of the public benefit.
By the way, Ain't nothing more "FUZZY LOGIC" and contradicting about making the statements of "cutting people off and teaching people to fish" or as you said it, "maybe we should frankly cut people off and see what happens what do they actually do" followed up with "but perhaps Eric is right, maybe we need to teach people to fish". How about we do put systems in place to monitor performance and hold folks accountable rather than just throw money at problems and allow poeple to collect paychecks at the NPO level. Or did we forget the "audit" of the "peaceholics" and all that money that Fenty gave them. The Audit team had nothing, absolutely nothing.
Like I told Eric and now you, I think you talk just to hear and feel your gums flapping. You two are the most inconsistant writers on this list serve. At least, with others, their train of thought is consistant!! With Eric, I understand his Lobbying position and political future sometimes creates a conflict, but yours seems like just disdain!
In closing, I actually like your "Gay Black Guy" comment - it is good to see the seeds of thoughts that I planted in you head germinating. Keep Growing but don't ever confuse me as one of the kids in your (as you say it) "sandbox"! Allow me to quote you - maybe you should keep comments like that "for someone on your level or beneath you"! And don't write me off-list about your feelings again - I have always vocally supported Civil Rights for Gays but I won't let you play on the sympathy of Gays/others with your sob comments!!. I ain't the one!
Rob Ramson
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:20 PM, RobbyCU <RobbyCU@yahoo.com> wrote:
Rob:I know I'm just the self hating black gay guy, but you're sorta weaving into the realm of personal attacks and fuzzy logic. There is a market, that market respons to market forces. Businesses fail, survive or thrive. municipalities build infrastructure to meet growth or to encourage growth. It's really that simple. It's not moral, it's business. It's not personal, it's government. People will lose, people will be displaced, priorities will shift. It is normal. The goal should be to stabilize people so they are not dependent upon the government. But that would mean they were self reliant.To that end we have a fundamental disagreement, one that wont be resolved on email or even in a volume of argumentations. We stand here different. And in some respects that okay. Being right may not always mean the other is wrong, as the sky is both up and blue.Teach self reliance isn't actually opposed to caring about people, it may even be rooted in caring about people.It's the wedge issues that seem to get people interested, and then we spin our wheels and we end up doing nothing.So both may be right, but coming at the problem from different angles.
Politically, I don't believe much in social programs. AFDC was a failure, as is WIC and TANF. The War on property should have been won already and it's not. We either need to accept poverty as what it is, and move on, or actually get serious about helping people to be come self sufficient.Before Medicare, SSI, AFDC, Medicaid, TANF, WIC, general social security American civilization did not fall apart. We were a great nation from 1789 through to 1930s and then again from then to the 60s, and then again from the 90s.These experiments of social betterment have failed in large part. We're on our fourth or fifth generation of parent's on the dole. Young black men are in prison at an alarming rate, however not before they can make 1 or multiple babies to foster the cycle.Maybe we took another path, maybe we should frankly cut people off and see what happens what do they actually do. Let's simply say in 90 days entitlements will stop. You are adults and are responsible for your own welfare and the welfare of the people in your care.What do you think would happen? Would civilization fall apart, no we existed like that from 1789 until the 1930s. The world did not end then and it wouldn't now.This isn't about the myth of boot strapping, it's about survival. Again, Rob, I know to you I'm an aloof, didactic, petulant, self aggrandizing queer, but perhaps Eric is right, maybe we need to teach people to fish. If they don't then fish, they die, and we as a civilization move on. Like with addiction, the person has got to want to make that first step. As with poverty, if they don't they are and should be left behind. Harsh yes, nature 100%.-Robby___________________________________________
"In everything you do. Always be yourself"- Lee Hall, Billy ElliotNixon Farewell Speech to Whitehouse Staff:
From: Rob <indianrob@gmail.com>
To: wardfive@googlegroups.com
Cc: ward5@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WardFive] Re: [ward5] Re: Misplaced outrage?
Was that just a garbage rant or are you finally out of smoke?Thanks for telling me about Anthony Williams. I think that more peoole know more about all this as you were riding big wheels while others were paying real bills. Answer the question and don't skirt the issue. We know that waste occurs but what would you rather do dammit? you brought up funding!!You see, I am not a wide eyed teenager that you can impress with flapping your gums - I nred substance. I have made more mistakes than you have had successes. These gray hairs are not painted on. As I exhale, you should inhale. Imagine, my carbon dioxide has more life giving force than your oxygen tank. It is called experience. You might get some sense if you stop riding that fence and settle down.I told you before that too much information without UTIZING YOUR ABILITY to properly process or digest usually is referred to as vomit and is wasteful of your abilities. Stop talking and understand when someone is extending to you life experience and love. You need to start being your brother's keeper and use your energy as such - to figure out the possibilities.As for your "demand education", we can get that and trust me that it is the extra curricular work that is needed. Remember - the idle mind is the devil's workshop so I need us to occupy as much of our youth time with productive experiences that it will create a more positive habit/focus.RobOn Jul 18, 2012 7:48 PM, "Eric J. Jones" <ejjones.threed@gmail.com> wrote:Rob,You should spend some time becoming more familiar with the development plans and processes in this city before you make statements. The fact of the matter is that much of the change on H street was planned because of the groundwork to bring them back a decade ago.Likewise many of the plans east of the river including the delay in projects east of the river is directly connected to this issue.You talk about the growth and development you see, but much of the private work is 5 - 10 years in the making and much of it goes back to Anthony Williams.But I'm not going to go back and forth with you and others on the list serve as it serves no purpose for me and helps me get very few of my goals accomplished. This is why I stepped back from this medium and plan to continue to do so.As for your last question, additional resources for education isn't the issue. It is how the resources are being squandered currently. You see we don't need to supplement education, wr need to demand and required it.It isn't by accident that in order the wards with the highest rates of unemployment and residents with criminal backgrounds also have the lowest levels of high school graduates. We continue to talk of giving people fish instead of teaching them how to fish and in turn we are creating generations of dependent folks.With that said, I wish everyone a good evening. It's family time.Eric J. Jones
- ejjones.threed@gmail.comOn Jul 18, 2012 7:12 PM, "Rob" <indianrob@gmail.com> wrote:So here are two things I woukd like to share .1. Remember those pyramid Schemes to get make 2500, 5000 +.Remember what happened to those who joined last. Well, Mr. Gray just got caught up in this whole Campaign funding Pyramid Scheme. I don't know if he is guilty and definitely don't want nothing bad happening to him. However, that entire mentality/culture of what "public service" currently is needs to change. I am sure whatever he may be guilty of, so many others have the exact same hustle box checked off with 5 Stars.2. As to where Street Cars is right now - I heard a story when I was little of a man who had an orchard and also had some lazy children who refused to work. On his deathbed, he said that he had hidden a large chest full of gold coins buried in the orchard but he was sure it wasn't buried within 10 feet of the trees. Well his children got together and dug up the entire orchard but out of sheer laziness, never got within 10 feet of the trees and never disturbed the roots. They finally gave up after they found nothing and cursed their dead father.The very next season, the fruits were bountiful and harvest made them rich. See, while the father was alive, he could never afford to hire people to toil the soil and his kids were too lazy to help.The moral in the story as it relatws to DC is that we have this beautiful property and because we are all creatures who like "nice" things/$$$, H st. was changed and now without the "chest of gold", it is bearing fruits. Trust and believe since Homeland Security is coming to St. Elizabeth, that whole area is about to change as well. H st. and S.E. Will bear fruits. IT IS THE MINDSET that needed to be changed.The gold coins is the H st. Community the way it is now. We really don't need to spend 50+ million more and operate forever on a deficit to enjoy the fruits. Be Smart. You wouldn't waste any more money if this was your household.As to "how govt. works" - Can we evolve or do we continue to operate as if we live in a Cave.As to maintaining the schools and programs, our fraternity and sorority system was set up for exactly this. That is the goal. Our kids needs every opportunity that we can give.Here is the Question I have for you - WOULD YOU, GRAY AND THE REST RATHER SUPPLEMENT THE STREET CAR OR WOULD YOU RATHER SUPPLEMENT THE KIDS EDUCATION/PROGRAM FUND?It is yours and other folks perspective that needs to change - Mr. Gray included. While I often jab at you, it is because I care. Hopefully you and others are getting immersed in some logic.Rob RamsonOn Jul 18, 2012 5:38 PM, "Rob" <indianrob@gmail.com> wrote:Let me just reply quickly SPUR GROWTH IN DC - are you kidding me. Do you see any %%%:%/% Street Cars rignt now but how much growth is here and how much is planned. If no street cars come, the developers are still digging. TRUST ME! That "Jim Jones Koolaid is too heavenly sweet that you are drinking. Stand back from the forest and maybe you will start seeing clearer. You are on well on your way but tiptoe and open your eyes and start thinking. You are quite. capable. I will get to the rest later.On Jul 18, 2012 5:09 PM, "Eric J. Jones" <ejjones.threed@gmail.com> wrote:First, it is on the council webpage at WWW.dccouncil.us look for the link to hearings and pull up that hearing.Secondly, you keep on talking of just spending and putting money in certain areas and that is not how government or budgeting works.You put programs at the school yet we don't have the resources to support them. Now before you get back in that same BS bandwagon about streetcars you can't use all of that money for that use. Secondly, the goal of street cars is to hopefully spur growth.Unfortunately the areas of ivy city/Trinidad have two fairly new recreation centers which can house many if the programs being mentioned.As far the legislation it is not about the depth of it, there are legality issues, compliance issues as well as significant cost for the city for staff, new systems, etc that can't be met. I actually find it problematic that you are speaking so highly of legislation that it is clear you haven't fully read or researched. It almost sounds like you are attempting to carry water for someone.If we as residents are going to continue to push and complain wr need to come with recommendations that have been researched and solutions based strictly on that information.Folks keep on yelling about what they want and then expect someone else to do the leg work of figuring out if it is possible or how to make it work.Eric J. Jones
- ejjones.threed@gmail.comOn Jul 18, 2012 3:28 PM, "Rob" <indianrob@gmail.com> wrote:Eric,I am absolutely sure that there are many issues with VO's legislation. Most of these legislations are only SKELETONS of what they need to be. This does seem like he has good intentions as well as it makes him grow his support. The reality is that unless we really expose the CM's and force closing the Loopholes, they "hear" but really don't HEAR what is being said at those hearings.Can you get me the tape of that session and a copy of the bill so that we can go over it with some other folks. This would be a good way for us to start pushing them.As for the rest of the BS about outside employment, there are many people who are qualified and willing to perform duties of a CM without having outside employment with companies who have any type of affilitation with DC. Let those willing and able people be Civil SERVICE. For all those who want to be "partners" in Law Firms and VP's in subsideries, let them focus on contributing to those companies at 100%.Let's be leaders in Change. By taking away the temptation, it allows for successful behavior - damn near guarantees it. Let's not fool ourselves that we can put kids into candy factories and them not eat any. Or maybe I can get you to remember Kris Rock in New Jack City!!! Let's set the system where Lobbying would be limited to sending in complaints and the Council putting Laws in place to remedy the issues affecting the community.BOTTOM LINE - I don't want to wait every 4 years to hopefully vote someone out and still have to possibly face the same issues. As for the Mayor, HIS personal shortcomings are his issues at home - when his decisions are causing this much grief and outrage, he is difinitely missing something - that is personal shortcomings. The problem he has and many other of our CM's have are that they don't think things through and make fair decisions.For example, if he never pushed the "street car", there would be no outrage and even if there was, those people would sound really stupid when they said that our City should spend money on Street Cars instead of Schools and other higher priority infrastructure - especially if the answer is to convert to Electric Buses. They would pretty much have to come out and say that WE don't want to ride on the Bus so spend 2 Billion to make us Look/Feel GOOD/Superior when we ride. There definitely would have been no one fussing over a "Barn" at Spingarn.Another example, If he said no to the buses on Crummel and put them at the "other" place that Mike said that they would put it if something else comes along, there would be no issues. If he had spent some of that H Street Capital money fixing The CRUMMEL School, that area could have had a good tutoring/rec center with great basketball courts and maybe an olympic pool that we could have Swim Meets. How about putting some money into creating opportunity for folks to enhance themselves with classrooms that we could set up some after school scholastic and workforce development to keep the youth occupied and out of the street and retool our adults so that they could Lead their households.It ain't that hard. PUT THE BUSES over off of QUEENS CHAPEL (right off Bladensburg and New York) where they are storing JUNK DESKS and JUNK COMPUTERS AND CABINETS. No one around that location to be upset.REALLY, IT AIN'T that hard. So, you don't have to physically STEAL kids money or order TWO ESCALADES when you are really STEALING the FUTURE from your YOUTH and their PARENTS by limiting OPPORTUNITY and SPENDING 2 Billion on a Street Car System that you can do with maybe 1- 200 million. EITHER WAY, ERIC it is THEFT and that is Personal Shortcomings. Worse, he is a Black Man who is further OPPRESSING his People whether he/they want to admit or not. There is absolutely no difference in him and HARRY!! Let's be real! They could say the same thing for me, maybe you and so many others who have made mistakes and bad choices but it is the level of where this is and the overall affect that is having as well as the position that he holds and the DUTY that WAS SWORN IN TO DO. Remember, a Mother always takes care of the weak and a Commander always secures his weak side. The Enemy Armies always ATTACK the WEAK SIDE of the Wall when they are Conquering other KINGDOMS and destroying cultures! SAD that this is happenning by one of our own. It was really great to see the diversity in support of the CRUMMEL on Monday Night.Rob Ramson
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Eric J. Jones <ejjones.threed@gmail.com> wrote:
Rob,There are several issues with VO's legislation. While his intent may be well, there are several problems with it. The head of DSLBD spoke a lot about this in his testimony.As for the issues about problems with money in politics that is an excuse.Many other major cities allow outside employment and don't have the issues we have. Hell the President of the Atlanta City Council is a Partner in a Major International Law Firm, yet he doesn't have those issues.We are the issue, we elect folks who act this way. This city has constantly discouraged many folks who would be great public servants from considering it and continue to do so.As for Mr. Thompson and his two companies, they have been successful for years yet DC is the only place in which he has been tied to issues such as this. I think a great deal of it was disrespect for local residents and the need to stroke his own ego. No matter the reason this isolated incidence has caused major issues.As for the mayor, I will say again that he is in an unfortunately situation. No matter if he was involved or not he has the impression of a Culture of Corruption circling around him which is unfortunate.Unlike the issues which faced HTJ and KB the Mayor's issues are not personal short comings and eventually he will have to answer for them like the head coach or head of a company.In closing maybe we as a city and as residents will finally get off the sidelines and truly get serious on a broader level about the issues facing our city.Eric J. Jones
- ejjones.threed@gmail.comOn Jul 18, 2012 12:18 PM, "Rob" <indianrob@gmail.com> wrote:Hello Everyone,Personally, I made some mistakes in life and at 43, I know who is crooked and who is not and what not mistakes to repeat, who not to be around, etc. In perspective, the Mayor deserves his due process just as anyone has the right to ask him to resign if they want to - for whatever reason. So, I am with anyone who wants to change the system so that no campaign gets funded over the set limits they have now and there can be no "mailing" done by unions or corporations or anything like that, work done by out of state folks, no Thompson's or Mary's, No Toms, or ..... , etc.Also, I am with anyone who wants no Govt. official to accept anything other than their paycheck or they get prosecuted. At the Salaries they make, there is no need for outside income from companies doing business in DC. I am for letting the public know when every meeting is schedule in advanced, with who, for what purpose and to be video and audio taped. These types of regulations will help to keep people in line.The saddest thing about all that is occurring is that Our Mayor is 69 years old and there is no excuse for him at this age to be making the types of mistakes that he is making. Also, much worse is the decisions that he is forcing on his Black communities with no regard to their input. It was tough riding through IVY CITY the other night and being reminded how impoverished some parts of our community really are (relatively speaking to being in the Capital City of United States/The World). This is the saddest part of all the Sad things that are occurring. For all this campaign issues as I am sure that all of our CM's could be peeled back like a banana to expose how green or ripe they really are with corruption.It is truly SAD how the decisions are being made with the lack of respect for the residents of Our City; especially when it is seems like the decision to or not to do something of priority is based on how it will benifit the carreer (in or our of govt) or pockets (their own, family or friends) of many of our CM's and our Mayor and some of our other Govt. Officials like the Deputy Mayors and next level management and contract issuers, etc.. Most of these individuals are just simply drunk with power addicted to $$
As to the Double Standard - it exists.1. At our Local Ward 5 level, you have those who protest a Liquor License over parking for a Black Business with some parking and not for a White Business with no parking. But our some of our residents are cool with that.2. We have our some of our ANC vote against the SAP in Brookland (which is part of the law) in the 901 Monroe issue, probably for the financial and vote support in their movement to run for public office and for "love" from the Wilson Bldg - with no care for the people closest to the project.3. At the next level, We have a Vote from the Zoning Commission breaking the SAP of Brookland, probably because the orders came from the Wilson Bldg.4. We have decisions being made about "Vanity" style transportation (Street Cars) when we have more important Capital Improvement to be made.5. We have things being placed in communities like 6 MM cultivation spots when they could be spread out all over.6. We have Strip Clubs being focused in our community when they should be shared a burden/amenity7. We have NO to putting a Trolly Barn in Ward 7 Green Space but OK for Ward 5 Green Space8. We have "interim" BUS parking in an already depressed neighborhood when they should be looking at revival of the community.9. We have Vincent Orange trying to put together a bill to fix a problem with Small Business Strangulation that should have been done a long time ago but none of our CM's did anything.10. We have a Ethics reformation that left so many loopholes and areas that CM's could continue the rapist culture of their position/politics that makes us into our Govt. Officials ProstitutesSo, why does it surprise anyone of the double standard that is occuring with Mayor Gray. The Fact is that this is so much bigger than Mr. Gray. While he is to blame for all those decisions from Suliman Brown to ....... and insensitivity to our most needing communities, the reality is WE ARE THE ONES TO BLAME as we either continue to be selfish or sell ourselves for pennies so we will continue to get a "PENNY'S" worth of Service and Respect.Mr. Peloquin and a few others have been saying it for a while - We need to Change the System and then when the People takes those position, they will be forced to conform. Looking forward to focusing on getting the SERVICE turned back on in the term PUBLIC SERVICE.Rob Ramson.
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:26 AM, K <cooperator@starpower.net> wrote:
Julianne,
We seem to be on the same page about a lot of things -- including not wanting to see Mayor Gray railroaded out of office if he truly wasn't a part of his campaign's violations.
But I think the investigations and prosecutions -- where a criminal case exists -- need to move forward.
And with all of the longstanding political corruption that most of us on this list know exists in D.C.'s local government, there's a small part of me that is wondering if Mayor Gray was set up during his campaign so that somebody could try to pull the plug on his mayoralty as soon as Gray tried to get in the way of some project or gravy train for somebody who's among those milking D.C.
Let's see how far the prosecution of Jeff Thompson and other politicians ever gets....
--Kathy Sinzinger
--- In ward5@yahoogroups.com, "Julianne M. Robertson King" <kingjulianne@...> wrote:
>> I'm not invested in having the last word, so I'm sure this chain will continue...> That said, you make my point with the Edwards case by pointing out that his prosecution took place AFTER the election. Heck even monstrous, blood thirsty savages like Slobodan Milosevic in Serbia or Charles Taylor of Liberia served for years and were LATER prosecuted. Here, we have someone whose involvement with and personal knowledge of the disputed campaign funds is not clear, and we want him to run away and disrupt the operation of the government and abandon his office? Some operations of the government will grind to a screeching halt. Surely that's not the outcome you want. Should he be tried later? That's not my call.
>
>
>
> The historical precedent for this scenario was set forth in the early 1990's. Frankly the Iran-Contra crisis should have resulted in George Herbert Walker Bush, Ed Meese, Cap Weinberger and a whole host of other folks to have gone to jail, but instead we (sort of) elected Bush's son to the Presidency. We see how that worked out...
>
> Â
>
> Julianne M. Robertson King Esq.
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any computerized telephonic communications (skype, etc.) may be protected by attorney-client or work product privilege. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender, Julianne M. Robertson King at (202) 200-9273 and delete the e-mail without recording its contents in any manner.J
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: K <cooperator@...>> To: ward5@yahoogroups.com> Â
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:54 AM
> Subject: [ward5] Re: Misplaced outrage?
>
>> If you really believe that self-government is what's at stake here, I believe you are addressing that feared loss in precisely the wrong way.
>
> Digging in one's heals to preserve a long-corrupt system -- rather than fighting alongside the people who are trying to root out the corruption -- sends the wrong message to Congress.
>
> Federal prosecutors should be seen as HELPING US GET CONTROL OF OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT, rather than trying to take it away from us with these prosecutions.
>
> You know, federal prosecutors work for all of us D.C. residents as federal taxpayers, too.
>
> --Kathy Sinzinger
>> --- In ward5@yahoogroups.com, "Julianne M. Robertson King" <kingjulianne@> wrote:> > I've been accused of a lot of things, but naive isn't one of them. I will keep my own counsel about when to flick the outrage switch, but I can understand why others might allow this contrivance to cause them to react. Outrage shuts your rational mind down. It keeps you from critically analysing the situation. I never said I wasn't deeply disappointed, hurt and betrayed, but those are emotional responses. The only response that matters is that we fight to preserve our right to elect a Council and Mayor and to have them serve at the pleasure of the electorate. That's what's at stake here, and they want you to miss it. Don't let it happen. I'm on your side.
> >
> >
> > Lol,
> >> > From: "jeromepeloquin@" <jeromepeloquin@>
> >
> >
> > Julianne M. Robertson King Esq.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and any computerized telephonic communications (skype, etc.) may be protected by attorney-client or work product privilege. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender, Julianne M. Robertson King at (202) 200-9273 and delete the e-mail without recording its contents in any manner.J
> >
> >
> > ________________________________> > ÂÂ
> > To: ward5@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:36 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ward5] Misplaced outrage?
> >
> >
> > Once more dear friends ... into the breach ... I take your point but fear you miss mine completely!  The Gray/Thompson affair is merely symptomatic of the deeper root cause.  There is a cancer growing on our government and way of life ... unless we act as a people, it is terminal. ÂÂ
> > ÂÂ
> > This is the cancerous and devastating effect of money in the political process.  We can never eliminate greed, but we can remove it to the extent possible ... Please Ms. King, do not be naive.  People like Thompson do not give money for nothing.  I have seen how lobbyists work ... and so, must I believe, have you.  Most of our elected leaders have sold themselves in one way or another.  It is the avowed job of the lobbyist.(damn them) to subvert the official to their bidding. ÂÂ
> > ÂÂ
> > Madam, it appears to me that you and those who quibble over small cuts, while we bleed to death as a nation are part of the problem.  Why, as an officer of the court, are you not outraged when you see such blatant misuse of the public trust?  How many Council members and their aids need to go to jail before you realize that the system is corrupt and MUST be replaced.
> > ÂÂ> > ÂÂ
> > Nothing short of complete legislative and judicial reform will do.
> > Jerry in opposition
> > ÂÂ
> > ----- Original message -----
> > From: "Julianne M. Robertson King" <kingjulianne@>> > To: "ward5@yahoogroups">ward5@yahoogroups.com" <ward5@yahoogroups">ward5@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [ward5] Misplaced outrage?
> > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 06:02:09 -0700 (PDT)> > ÂÂ> > ÂÂ
> > ÂÂ
> > ÂÂ
> > I would be completely outraged if it was clear that Gray gave quid pro quo to Thompson in exchange for those funds, but the DOJ has declined to assert that. It would be a matter then of having an elected leader having sold himself, but I don't see it. It's also disheartening to have this played out in leaks, as if people dont see that the real objective is to create just this controversy we are playing out. Not falling for it.
> > ÂÂ
> >
> > Julianne M. Robertson King Esq.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and any computerized telephonic communications (skype, etc.) may be protected by attorney-client or work product privilege. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender, Julianne M. Robertson King at (202) 200-9273 and delete the e-mail without recording its contents in any manner.J
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: KPW <WKPW3@>> > ÂÂ
> > To: ward5@yahoogroups">ward5@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ward5] Misplaced outrage?
> >> > I would like to know if money people like Thompson do this across the country. Is this unique to D.C.?> > "Julianne M. Robertson King" <kingjulianne@> wrote:
> >
> > Also, have some of the people that have been in their elected positions since the 20th century done anything wreckless like this? Are others squeaky clean? When one asks for someone else's resignation, does that mean the person is never under review or question? I've heard councilmembers accused of conflict of interest and one never sees a full scale review.
> >
> > There's need for a lot of outrage over a lot of things in this city and country. Sometimes other things seem to take priority in the list for outrage. I don't know if Thompson is a bad guy or whether he was playing the game like he was taught by the real money people.
> >
> >
> > >"Sometimes letting things go is an act of far greater power than defending or hanging on." - Eckhart Tolle.ÂÂ
> > >
> > >
> > >Personally, outrage is a paralyzing, nonproductive space to be in. Jeff Thompson funded campaigns all over the country, and I think PACs are a way to game the system, but they've been around as a campaign tool since Franklin Roosevelt. For me, the greater outrage is that DC elected officials are now subject to an additional level of scrutiny AFTER they have been declared the winner and sworn in. That violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the Home Rule Charter. Our independence is being threatened, and my question is: "Who stands the most to gain by taking our leaders out?"
> > >
> > >ÂÂ
> > >
> > >Julianne M. Robertson King Esq.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >This e-mail and any computerized telephonic communications (skype, etc.) may be protected by attorney-client or work product privilege. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender, Julianne M. Robertson King at (202) 200-9273 and delete the e-mail without recording its contents in any manner.J
> > >
> > >
> > >________________________________
> > > From: K <cooperator@>> > >To: ward5@yahoogroups">ward5@yahoogroups.com> > >ÂÂ
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:46 AM
> > >Subject: [ward5] Misplaced outrage?
> > >
> > >> > ÂÂ
> > >Most of us would probably agree that the shadow campaign for Vince Gray was both wrong and stupid.
> > >
> > >What I don't really understand is why no one seems to be damning Jeff Thompson for his apparent key role in perpetrating this shadow campaign.
> > >
> > >Where is the outrage over the person who apparently FUNDED this shadow campaign? And the outrage over all of our tax dollars that Jeff Thompson has been apparently converting into campaign cash over the years?
> > >
> > >None of this bad stuff happens in campaigns without the money, folks. Why aren't you angry over THAT and showing just a little bit of outrage over the great possibility that our tax dollars may have been either willfully or incidentally converted into campaign money to undermine fair campaigning for local elective offices for many, many years?
> > >
> > >None of this stuff started with Vince Gray's campaign, and anyone who is either active in D.C. politics or pays close attention knows that full well.
> > >
> > >And no -- I'm not trying to excuse anything that went wrong in Vince Gray's campaign. I'm just trying to understand why people in this town would rather jockey for political advantage over something like this rather than rooting out the real problems.
> > >
> > >Educate me.
> > >
> > >--Kathy Sinzinger
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ÂÂ
> > ÂÂ
> >
>
--
R. Ramson
3744 12th Street, N.E.,
Washington D.C., 20017
202-438-5988
"We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
(Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)
--
WardFive@googlegroups.com is open to WardFive residents for community discussion and information sharing.
To post to this group, send email to wardfive@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wardfive+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wardfive?hl=en
--
R. Ramson
3744 12th Street, N.E.,
Washington D.C., 20017
202-438-5988
"We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
(Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)
--
WardFive@googlegroups.com is open to WardFive residents for community discussion and information sharing.
To post to this group, send email to wardfive@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wardfive+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wardfive?hl=en
--
WardFive@googlegroups.com is open to WardFive residents for community discussion and information sharing.
To post to this group, send email to wardfive@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wardfive+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wardfive?hl=en
--
WardFive@googlegroups.com is open to WardFive residents for community discussion and information sharing.
To post to this group, send email to wardfive@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wardfive+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wardfive?hl=en
--
WardFive@googlegroups.com is open to WardFive residents for community discussion and information sharing.
To post to this group, send email to wardfive@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wardfive+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wardfive?hl=en
__._,_.___To Post a message, send it to: ward5@eGroups.com
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: ward5-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
.
__,_._,___
--
R. Ramson
3744 12th Street, N.E.,
Washington D.C., 20017
202-438-5988
"We must become the change we want to see" - Mohandas Gandhi-
(Together, for a Brighter Tomorrow)
--
WardFive@googlegroups.com is open to WardFive residents for community discussion and information sharing.
To post to this group, send email to wardfive@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wardfive+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wardfive?hl=en
0 comments:
Post a Comment